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Commercial Floor Cleaning Machines

Questions about hose length and size, vacs, etc.

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Johnsmith808 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22/December/2007 at 1:58am
Hello everyone.  I've been reading this forum off and on for a while.  Very good information.  Can't beat experience, and this forum has loads of it.

I have a few questions.  First of all, I have a Diamondback extractor which has a 200psi pump and twin 3 stage vacs.  I also have a Rotovac, but don't use it much.  3 chords is a bit much, the water fillling issue, takes way longer than a wand to set up, and usually, I get very good results with a wand anyway. 

My first questions have to do with hoses.  I currently run 25 to 50 feet of 1.5" hose.  Would using 2" hose make any difference with the machine I use?  Also, would using 15' be significantly better than running 25'?

I think I already know the answer to this next question, but would hide a hose cuffs (solution line running in the vacuum hose) cause a significant drop off in air flow? 

I've also been reading the posts about running vacs in parallel verus in a series.  I'm pretty sure my machine is run in a series because of the waterlift number (220").  So I would imagine that the cfm would be around 90.

Now if you took these two same vacs and ran them in parallel, then I guess you would get around 120" of lift and 200 cfm.

From what I've read, a good way to determine the actual performance of your dual (or more) vac motors is to times the cfm by the waterlift.  So if that is true, the series figure for my machine's motors would be 19800 and the parallel figure would be 24000.  Are these figures a good indicator of the relative performance of the two vac configurations?

If it is true that running vacs in parallel is generally better than in a series, can you change a unit that is running in a series to one that runs in parallel?

Sorry so many questions.  Thanks for your attention.




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FriendlyHammer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FriendlyHammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2007 at 5:11am
Parallel is better than series.

Don't put the solution hose inside the vacuum hose because it will reduce airflow and trap hair and fibers. Get Velcro straps or some other kind of strap.

Your vacuums are in series, so a bigger hose won't help. Try to keep your hose length as short as you possibly can.  50 feet is way too long.

You can switch most machines from series to parallel. It takes some work. Your waterlift should be higher than 120' if you have 3-stage vacs.


Edited by FriendlyHammer - 22/December/2007 at 5:14am
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Johnsmith808 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnsmith808 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2007 at 7:17pm
Thanks for the advice.  This whole parallel versus series thing is brand new to me.

That's good news that it can be switched, though.  What kind of parts would I need?

I read the numbers on the Mytee speedster.  It was 200 cfm with 140" of lift.  I would imagine that would be the numbers I would get if I switched over to parallel.

Since it will require some effort and expense to do this project, how much of an improvement could I expect?

Thanks again.
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John L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2007 at 8:05pm
Hey man.. Don't even bother.. Save for a more powerful porty or entrylevel TM.. The diff won't be that much.. Sell it and get a Recoil or TM..Big smile
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Johnsmith808 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnsmith808 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2007 at 8:54pm
But isn't a Recoil based on the concept of running vacs in parallel?  Would there really be much of a difference between a recoil and a Mytee with an added vac booster?  Or am I missing something?

Also, could you get an idea of what vacs running in parallel would be like if you had 2 extractors and only turned on one vac on each, and connected the vac hoses with a Y adapter to form one vac hose going to the wand?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FriendlyHammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2007 at 9:54pm
The recoil would be helpful if you need longer hose lengths.
 
You should get the same power from your machine as the Mytee if you have the same vacuum motors. I have no idea what in in you machine. 
 
Making the machine a parallel machine should be easy, but it depends upon how things are positioned inside the machine. If you open it up and it doesn't look like something you can easily figure out on your own, take it to a shop and ask them to sell you whatever parts they think you will need to do the job.
 
I also don't know what the inside intake pipe looks like. Hopefully it's not so narrow that it restricts airflow.


Edited by FriendlyHammer - 22/December/2007 at 9:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnsmith808 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2007 at 10:03pm
I actually opened up the Diamonback and it doesn't look good.  The intake of the 2nd vac is in the waste tank.  Not sure how I could possibly combine the two.  My other smaller extractor seems a lot easier to work with, but only has 2-2 stage vacs.

So all I would need to do is combine the two intakes with a Y adapter or something and ensure that the other vac is now able to vent out of the bottom of the machine?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnsmith808 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/December/2007 at 5:20am
I ran a little experiment to see what running vacs in parallel might be like.  I have a castex portapac which has a two stage vac and a euroclean hipvac, which has a smaller 2 stage vac.  I connected a single hose to both units and cut a hole in the middle of the hose.  I bent the hose a bit so the vacs wouldn't suck each other to death.  The amount of airflow coming from the opening was pretty impressive.

Next, I plugged in my Diamonback with dual 3 stage vacs in a series, and I almost couldn't believe how little air flow it had in comparison.  Sure it was super strong when you practically covered the opening completely (I imagine that would be the waterlift), but that obviously is not how a wand would be when cleaning a carpet.

I hope I can find a way to transform my Diamondback to parallel.  If not, maybe I'll sell it, my Rotovac, and my little old extractor and get a Mytee 1005DX.  I would much prefer the former, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/December/2007 at 10:36am
Waterlift..Thats what brings the water into the wand head.. It lifts it in the wand head.. hence:(waterlift).. Then CFM's take over..Big smile
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FriendlyHammer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FriendlyHammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/December/2007 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by John L John L wrote:

Waterlift..Thats what brings the water into the wand head.. It lifts it in the wand head.. hence:(waterlift).. Then CFM's take over..Big smile


It's a dynamic relationship. Waterlift can't take place until the cfm's remove the air from the tank and hose.  Without waterlift, the water won't come out of the carpet. Without cfm's, the water pulled out of the carpet won't make it to the recovery tank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Valentine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/December/2007 at 1:17pm
No offense, but I must THANK friendlyhammer, JohnL, above for asnwering the questions on CFM/Water-lift, and even................the RECOIL vs..............whoever or whatever issue.

After introducing and bringing airflow and etc to the forefront 30+ years ago, I just don't seem to have the energy these days to continually get into a detailed discusion by punding the key boards!!!!

Now, a phone call is different!


Merry Christmas to all;
ED Valentine
cross-american corp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnsmith808 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/December/2007 at 3:18am
I looked at the parts drawing of the Mytee 1005HV.  I noticed it actually had 2 of those pvc pipes with the ping pong balls in the cage things, one for each vac.  I know the newer model only has one, but it's two inches instead of two 1.5".  They combined the airflow before the recovery tank.

This seems like the only option I have for my Diamondback.  It's pretty cramped in the vac's/pump area.  I plan on taking my unit to a Machine shop and have them drill a second hole in the bottom of the recovery tank, and install another pvc pipe thingy.  I got all the parts already, so hope everything goes well.  Anything I should know about this before I do this?

One more question:  How important would having a 2" opening to connect vac hoses on the recovery tank?  Big difference over 1.5"?  Thanks.


Edited by Johnsmith808 - 25/December/2007 at 3:37am
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John L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/December/2007 at 7:19am
"One more question:  How important would having a 2" opening to connect vac hoses on the recovery tank?  Big difference over 1.5"?  Thanks."

Do it..
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