To all you folks that knock my posts on detergent free cleaning, all I can say is DON"T KNOCK TIL YOU TRY IT!

The day will come when we will be not to allowed in a lot of buildings with our present detergents, so I say when something like this comes along don't be so negitive and try it, some of you will like it, others will not, all I can say it works for us and it will reduce my chemical costs by 50%, plus provide my clients with a very environmentally safe cleaning solution.

I don't know what else one would want?

I have tested and am now using DFC105 and it works great.

Lee

Friday being a holiday in Canada we had very few telephone calls yet me being a brunt for punishment I worked and had exactly eight telephone calls all from the U.S.A.

Interesting they were all inquiring into Environment related products.

THINGS ARE A CHANGING as they say, slowly but surely.

Where do you stand on these issues?

Everone talks about the weather but no one ever does anything about it.

Everyone says "Hi Ted, what's new?". When I tell them they say "Tried that sh*t, doesn't work".

Don't be so hasty to slub off new products. Be part of the solution not the problem.

You may say "Ted just wants to sell us a product". Answer is yes, but Ted also thirsts to be on the solution green side of the fence and not the toxic problem side. 

Danmarck

The name of our issue is not the environment. It is health. There are many environmrentally safe products out there that meet some kind of standard. That does not mean that they are good for people.

Will DFC clean everything? probably not. Will it clean most things. Probably yes. Will you like it? I can't answer that - only testing it will tell

dude you been in business how long and you're working on good friday?

you need to find jesus

MR. STEAMER wrote: are we going to pass the saving on to the customer?????

Try it before you go cutting your prices??????????

I didn't work good friday???   did anyone work good friday????

Jim Darling wrote: Danmarck The name of our issue is not the environment. It is health. There are many environmrentally safe products out there that meet some kind of standard. That does not mean that they are good for people. Will DFC clean everything? probably not. Will it clean most things. Probably yes. Will you like it? I can't answer that - only testing it will tell

Jim:  That is almost word for word what you said about Ecogent??

Doug

I think this product might be even better than ECOgent. The hotter the water the better it will work.

ECOgent is all natural ingredients. (natural surfactants) DFC is surfactant free - only food ingredients. Some people will like it, some will not.

There are 2 things I'm hope you might agree with me. Almost all cleaning products made by anybody have long term health effects. Some are more dangerous than others. Marketing your services for health offers you some tremedous benefits. 

Doug, The DFC105 is great for our commercial cleaning division, but lately we have been running in our truck units with some real good results. I did not like the original Ecogent product, but this one has me excited about being able to clean on the green side and not need to worry about the effects detergents can have on clients and employees.

For many years we ignored the environmental/health issues as no one was pressing us to be more responsible in this area, however, we are now seeing people being more concerned with what we are using in their homes and office buildings and this product fills the bill, I am sure we will see improvements as time and testing goes on. The one thing I know for sure I am ready to face their demands.

Detergent Free Cleaning Advertising

Most of us including myself all like to think that we can design our own advertising. Why? Because we are cheap or cannot afford to hire high powered professional advertising agencies.

You pay peanuts you get monkeys.

We obviously do not have an advertising budget the likes of Chemspec so that leaves us with our brother-in-law who works for free and maybe our own feeble minds. Most CC advertising that I see would not encourage me to give it a second look. As a home owner it would all be in the garbage.

News Flash!
Chemspec has taken a fresh new approach to their new product with their advertising dollars. Instead of producing four colored gloss pamphlets to entice you the carpet cleaner to buy Chemspec products they are actually producing professionally designed literature. Available to you in your trading area that will make potential customers thirst for you and your new, safe, green, allergy free product D.F.C.

I as one commend Chemspec for this reversal in advertising. So for those who choose to get with the program it will be beneficial to them.

Now Joe the Bathtubber can and will not out-market us. Out-price us? YES, out-market us? NEVER.

Look around. Good advertising is what makes the business world go round. 

LOL

super size me!!!!

super size me!!!!

We are currently in negotiations with Tim Hortons to distribute D.F.C.

Coffee, Donut and a cup of D.F.C. Regular or Diet.

Drink plenty while cleaning and you're guaranteed to lose weight. Save at the gym.

Ted, Adwa - You may be interested in knowing that i got a call after class today from a provincial Government that we have been working with.

Within 5 months all carpets that are to be cleaned within the building must be cleaned with a new chemical standard that is coming out. This means that literally all exisitng carpet products on the market will not be allowed for extraction, bonnet, encap, shampoo or any other traditional method of cleaning. They will continue to allow the use of specialized products to handle specialized situations but for regular stuff we all do the future is coming faster than we all think

Cleaning Without Harming

D.F.C. is Coming
D.F.C. is Coming
D.F.C. is Coming
D.F.C. is Coming
D.F.C. is Coming

P.S. to nightrider
Nettoyant sans détergent.

MR. STEAMER wrote: c'est une pile de marée d'utilisation de merde

it is a pile of tide of use of sh*t?

So give me the ADVANTAGE of detergent free cleaning...

Which provincial government is that, ONE BUILDING DOES NOT MAKE A CHANGE IN AN INDUSTRY. I can lobby the government for green toilet paper cause it has a relaxing effect, thus giving you a more peaceful crap, and some idiot official just might implement it in his building, that does not mean all toilet paper will have to be green. MAD has been lobbying the government to get tough of drunk drivers for over 20 years, NOTHING HAPPENED YET.

                                Nightrider

didn't say my post would be good... I just post

Jim Darling is starting to sound alot like Kenny with his glides, and Ted is shadow boxing for him in his corner counting all the money that will be expected to flow through his doors. Kenny tells us to buy his glides now before oil goes up and raises the price. I would like to know.........are there any milk by products in D. F. C 'cause I heard milk is going up.

                             Nightrider

Any new product is a tough sell, especially when you have to re-invent the wheel in order to generate sales. Jim should call me up and for a generous fee I can boost his product in a different direction where at least he'll have a winner on his hands. I can see this product taking he same path and direction as Eco-Gent.

                               Nightrider

It sure is nice to see that lots of you have opinions. That is the great thing about a BB. I tend to post only when I feel I have something of value to add so in the fewest numbers of words here is some info about Detergent Free Cleaning.

1. Almost all cleaning agents today include chemicals that have either known or suspected long term human health effects

2. Most cleaning chemicals offered today are based on petrochemical technolgy.

3. "Environmentally preferable" products try to reduce or eliminate the most toxic ingredients but they leave us and our environment still exposed to chemicals not found naturally in our bodies or our environment

4. The new reality about chemicals is that a portion of the materials you use will eventually become part of your body burden.

5. Detergent Free Cleaners only contain chemicals that are listed as generally considered safe for consumption by the Food and Drug Administration. In other words, they only contain ingredients that we consume evry day.

6. ECOgent is a tremendous leap forward in technology. We incorporate no petrochemical based surfactants - we use plant based and other natural ingredients. If you understand that normal cleaning products are incredibly toxic to whatever lives in water then ECOgent is many many many times safer. Detergent Free Cleaners contain no surfactants, solvents, builders, acids, or caustics. When it is eventually introduced to the water system somehow it has an aquatic toxicity that is essentially zero.

7. To put this toxicity in perspective if you use any type of disinfectant product (assuming it is quat based) then for EACH GALLON OF DILUTED PRODUCT YOU HAVE YOU HAVE TO ADD 4,000 GALLONS OF WATER not to have a toxic effect on a rainbow trout

8. Please understand that "green" cleaning should not be about the environment - it should be about health. Almost every green product that I have ever seen while it may have environmetnal benefits is still regulated under WHMIS and as such is not good for people.

9. Nightrider - I would be delighted to go public on the Provincial Government. The reason i can't tell you which one is that there is political "jockeying" going on and their expected announcment date is April 30. That will probably mean July 1. It is not 1 building, it is 4000. I will tell you that they want to specify only carpet products that meet the new CCD-148 standard. Because there is a dearth of products that meet this standard they will probably end up embracing CCD-146, ECP-33. Of note is the fact that they will not allow ANY PRODUCT WITH THE GREEN SEAL APPROVAL simply because this standard is so low compared to others.

10. I have no doubt that some will like DFC cleaners and others will think that it is stupid. Give me the bad stuff! I can tell you unequivocably that the hotter the water the better this material will work. I can tell you that CLEANEX has used this material for 4 months now and loves it.

11. Will it clean everything? Of course not!

12. What DFC really offers you the cleaner is a tremendous marketing tool from you to your customers. it is estimated that over 15% of the population is chemically sensitive today. This is growing! The smart people will have DFC available to use first to meet this demand and then figure out that the customers are really intetrested in this feauture.

I apologize for the length of this post - I will now go away

Mr Steamer

In the case of the provincial Government, they will list what products are specified under this new standard. If the contractor does not use approved products then they risk the danger of losing the contract. This is how it will be enforced

Thanks Jim.  It is hard on these boards to only post when one has something of value to post.

Unfortunately when we do this some of the posters feel they must rip it apart and make the poster seem like an idiot.

Than again it does take one to know one doesn't it?

well then don't post bull Don.  I know your trying to help out Jim but save it for those that don't know whats going on

Jim whats in your DFC?

Can you post it? or is it secret?

is everything in the bottle on the label?

Suction

At this point in time all I can say is that every ingredient is listed as "suitable for ingestion." It is not WHMIS regulated

Jim Darling wrote: Suction At this point in time all I can say

Jim I think you are a gentleman, but I think this lack of information looks suspect.

Don is just a puppet and you pull all the strings.

I think I was wrong to go after doug and steamer.  I think Don is who I should focas on!

Don I think you need to bring me your torch

Suction

If i may add my 2 cents worth here i would strongly argue that we as a Company are more open about our products than perhaps anyone else in the carpet solution industry. Our MSD sheets exceed all Canadian standards and laws - we disclose more than we have to by law

On almost every product i see eminating from the US there are blatant Canadian MSDS laws being broken. If i really cared I guess i would call the MSDS police but i have better things to do.

As far as your comments about Don - I think you are way over the top here. I have known Don for a long time and the reason we like him to test our products is that he is both tough and fair. I gusarantee you he wouldn't use anything that does not give him the results he is looking for

Man oh man,

To talk about Don Eldred this way is unbelieveable.

Anybody who knows or has met Don will have no doubt he is no one's patsy.

Don is a scrapper, honest and opinionated. Its almost funny when you see him being mild mannered.

I use DFC and all my techs have it on board now. To say they are sceptical is an understatement. I drink a capful of DFC for each one of them to show how safe it is. With me being a health and safety teacher most people realize I'm not  the type to take unnecessary risks.

Don is insulting!

talking about people without wits!

he doesn't even know whats in DFC and he's supporting it!

Lee is drinking it!

why do you think they don't put everything on the label!

Jim said it himself, they are more open than most!

That means they have something to hide

Suction is such a smart guy, I would take his opinion of this brand new (not even on the market) product that he's never tried over the opinions of Don and Lee who have actually been testing it and have been nice enough to give us a preview to help us get the jump on our competition.

As for their having done so little for this industry, perhaps Mr Suction can tell us what he has done.

PS I didn't see either of these guys tooting their own horns, could you copy and paste where they did Suction.

Harry the leatherguy!

read and you'll find it Harry

do you need to be spoon fed!

Jim himself can not post the ingredients on the net!

Harry you are a fool!

It must be all that crap you leather guys inhale!

Suction,

Put the crack pipe away.

Everybody is allowed to shill here. If you don't want to try the product, it's OK. Nobody cares

Yes, I need to be spoon fed Ralph. Show me where Don is tooting his horn.  

Yes I am a dummy but not so dumb as to distribute for the Krook.

I WOULD LIKE TO ADRESS THIS QUESTION TO JIM DARLING..............GENERAL LEE STATES THAT HE DRINKS A CAPFUL OF D.F.C FOR EACH OF HIS TECHS TO PROVE THAT IT IS A SAFE PRODUCT

QUESTION: DO YOU RECOMMEND THIS PRACTISE, IF NOT WHY.

QUESTION: WHAT POSSIBLE AILEMENTS CAN OCCURE BY DRINKING 2 TO 4 OZ OF THIS D.F.C PRODUCT.

QUESTION: SHOULD SOMEONE DRINK D.F.C IS IT RECOMMENDED TO DRINK PLENTY OF FLUIDS AFTERWARDS, INDUCE VOMITTING, AND OR CONSULT POISON CONTROL.

iF THESE QUESTIONS ARE NOT ANSWERED HERE I WILL P.M JIM DARLING AND LATER POST HIS RESPONSE

                              NIGHTRIDER

Nightrider

DO I RECOMMEND DRINKING DFC? OF COURSE NOT.

WHY NOT: BECAUSE IT DORESN'T TASTE VERY GOOD (BUT DOES TASTE LIKE LEMONS)

IF YOU DRINK 2 - 4 OUNCES WHAT AILMENTS CAN OCCUR? NOTHING!

IF YOU DRINK TOO MUCH DO WE RECOMMEND PLENTY OF ....  I REALLY CAN'T IMAGINE ANYONE DRINKING THIS STUFF ON PURPOSE BUT IF THEY DO THEN THE WORST THING THAT MIGHT HAPPEN IS THEY GET "THE TROTS"

Hope this answers your questions

So what you're confirming is that according to you speaking on behalf of Chemspec, although you do not recommend drinking D.F.C you do guarantee that one cannot get sick and that 4 ounces is alright to drink. The worst thing that can happen if too much is taken internally is that he/she gets the runs. Am I correct in your assessment.

                            Nightrider

Nightrider I do not recommend drinking DFC at all - even 4 ounces. If you are thirsty on the job, why not ask your customer (if possible) for a glass of water. it is probably more refreshing.

You might get the runs or you might get an upset stomach that is all!

i am sure you would agree that common sense prevails here

HOWEVER IF WE DON'T HAVE COMMON SENSE THEN...

Maybe on your next trip to Toronto we can all meet at Ted's, knock a few back and see who gets an upset stomach. i might even take a page out of the Steak House marketing manual.

If you buy a 20 litre pail and drink it all - it's FREE!

That sound like a plan, we'll invite General lee 'cause he seems to really like that stuff. He has to be your best endorser for D.F.C drinking a capful for all his workers to prove that it's safe. I wonder what he had to do to entice his employees to work with the caustic chemicals..........GIVE THEM DANGER PAY. I'll await my sample from Kleenkuip and see what it does on a restaurant carpet, or a dirty Government building in which I have 7 in Ontario that I do on a regular basis.

Will it clean a dirty carpet or is it designed to freshen carpets up that are slightly soiled.

                               Nightrider

I'll take a DFC 105 on the rocks please.

Order it here:

http://www.virtualbartender.beer.com/ - http://www.virtualbartender.beer.com/

If they won't serve that try "catfight"

Nightrider

I would not recommend that you use this on a dirty restaurant carpet - you more than likely will be disappointed. Now I don't want you to take this the wrong way so let me explain.

Whenever anyone comes out with something new most cleaners immediately think of the "worst case scenario" to try it out on. That is their test. DFC cleaning or any form of Green Cleaning" MUST be looked at differently.

We all know that cleaners clean things ranging from not dirty at all to absolute pigpens. I DO THINK ANY "GREEN CHEMICAL" MADE BY ANYONE WILL NOT PERFORM AS WELL AS TRADITIONAL CHEMISTRIES ON TRASHED OUT CARPET. THIS IS NOT WHAT IT IS DESIGNED FOR

The whole concept here is to use it on most things you run across. I have said repeatedly that DFC will not clean everything. It is not supposed to! It is designed to be used for everyday stuff you run into. The whole story with green stuff is that you minimize YOUR EXPOSURE to the bad stuff. You also eliminate your customers exposure to VOC's etc.

From time to time (as in a greasy restaurant) you need to bring out the heavy guns. I certainly understand that and support that.

Having said that i was just talking with Don yesterday who told me that he eliminated his prespray and just ran DFC trough the truck and was impressed. I do not know what equipment you operate but i can tell you that the hotter the water the better DFC will work.

I just wanted to let you know publicly that a restaurant carpet might not be the best place to test this. If it works out - that's great. To get a feel for it it might be wiser to try it on "normal soiling first"

Jim

Jim

On the other side of the coin as you know we sell lots of Enz-All absolutely  (Kick Ass) the best for restaurants and heavy soiling.  I am adamant about CC not using it in homes.

Enz-All is not built for homes, but many CC say, " Hell No" they use it on everything.  If they will not listen to me what makes you think they will listen to you. 

SEEING IS BELIEVING

Ted, you are 100% right regarding the enz-all on residential carpeting. Chemspec's Enz-All is a GREAT product and I use it all the time on restaurant carpets, kitchen floors, and behind the woks & fryers. I even used it to clean some acoustic ceiling tiles with success, mind you I did add sodium percarbonate to it. The thing is, if it cleans only something that is already clean.......I might as well not clean it, save my time and D.F.C and just collect the money. I realize I'm talking without reason, but just what is Green Clean good for. I clean with temperatures up to 350 Degrees/1300 psi.......I'll see what it does and get back to you.

                               Nightrider

Nightrider - I really do like your posts - intelligence and wit combined. Let me try this again. We sincerely beleive that DFC is a great innovation for several reasons.

1. It really does clean well

2. Will it clean really trashed out stuff - probably not

3. Will it clean at lot of carpets - absolutely YES

4. Does it work better with hot water - absolutely YES

5. Will it clean the greasiest, dirty carpet found in a restaurant.? My initial reaction is to say no but go ahead when you get your sample and see what happens. If you say it cleans this situation well then I would take that as an incredible positive endorsement.

6. The real value in both ECOgent and DFC is that these 2 products adress some serious issues that we are faced with. All chemicals that we as a society are exposed to and use are not good for us. An analogy is that for many years Thetford Mines was the world's leading asbestos mining town. When they all retired to collect a pension, as we all know most of them died and as a society we all figured out that mining asbestos was very dangerous.  As they say in French - pointe finale.

7. I have learned a lot over the past 2 years about the industry I am involved in. There are very serious questions being raised by a lot of different people. The carpet cleaning industry really doesn't get to see them because beleive it or not the professional industry is made up of typically small people who do not have a collective voice.

8. At Chemspec we believe that the future is here now and most of the traditional chemistries we all use have definite long term effects.

9. The real value for you as a cleaner is that DFC and ECOgent offer you first of all - safety for you and your customer. It also offers you a tremendous marketing tool. In our office we get calls at least 3 times a week from all over the country from concerned home or business owners about chemcial safety, childrens safety, pets safety. Combine this with the incredible increase in asthma and other respiratory ailments out there and you have a market that is ideal for the right message

10. This message is really very simple. i will clean your carpet safely, i will not introduce VOC's and other toxic materials into your home or business. We have more 3rd party verifications on this than any other product in the world.

I would love you to try DFC in the restaurant. I hope it meets your expectations. More importantly than this i hope you realize the real benefits that it offers you

Jim

Jim, I'm always impressed with the way you handle opposition with a positive and articulate way of standing with both feet braced on each side of the argument. Your calling was a politician, and you could have been 2 billion dollars richer today. Science of old and science of today is seperated only by the way we measure particles, in the 50-60's it was parts per hundred and thousand..........today it's parts per million,& billion.......if technology continues on its path, that would mean the water we drink today will be poison for the generations to come, with that said, unlike the industries of Asbestos ( which was a government coverup regarding its carcinogenic properties) Coal, Lead, and the like, I have yet to hear of the average housewife today at 85 years of age or the nightcleaner of the 60's 70's & 80's dying of some kind of chemical toxin poisioning of cleaning products of old. I acknowledge the need of better science in our cleaning products and industry, but to say that it is of utmost importance plays a  trivial mind game with me. 75% of the food we eat is modified, altered, fortified with who knows what, has no nutritional value, packed with hydrogenated oils, saturated fats, a million calories per teaspoon. 16 spoons of sugar in a glass of Coke, fast food that causes kidney failure and ages us by 10 years.........Jim , I can go on and on..........I feel the least of societies worries is what soap is cleaning our carpet, and if any Provinical or Federal Government official would present me a written letter stating that my chemicals have to be GREEN, I would take a fast hop, skip and a jump over to the nearest lawyers office and place a class action law suit against all concerned, and would obtain a quick injunction. Please don't get me wrong with all this Green stuff, I wish you success and would gladly purchase it considering it works. I just get a little offended when you and Ted come on so strong and others who posted here regarding D.F.C making statements that the times are changing and the wave of the future is now with D.F.C, It's just a little too much hype..............I would like to think of myself as the voice of all those who think like me. Thanks

                             Nightrider 

Well, we had all heard that food is a powerful weapon........

Guess we will have to get used to the fact that it can be a powerful cleaner too..........................

Chemspec DFC was designed more as a pre-spray, steam cleaner or pad cleaner.
I thought I would try it as a spotter agent. Tried it on a serious 3 month old coffee splash.

http://www.kleenkuip.com/products/chemspec_dfc_demo.htm - Click here for Chemspec DFC Coffee Stain Demo Video

Seeing is Believing!

Nice...................Try in on a 3 hour red wine stain.

Did you spray Steamer...Doug.......& Kenny with that D.F.C Stuff.............Cause they all disappeared too

                              Nightrider

  Good one Nightrider

That was a good demo Ted.  Too bad you had to pump your spray so many times to get the chemical to come out. Next time prime it big boy.

Nightrider

Would you like that to be cheap Niagara Wine or expensive imported.

We offer both.

You're the host Ted, So I guess I will have to accept the Cheap Niagara Wine. That was an impressive demo I have to admit, Jim should pay you a commission for all these demos plus your time. Was that pure or diluted. Tell me does the D.F.C suds up at all, or is it non foaming like all good non detergent cleaners.

                             Nightrider

Nightrider

0 foam. Zero foam. If it did foam then it would have detergents in there and we could not call it DFC could we

I guess you caught my Trick Question........very observant of you..............I tried

                              Nightrider

It didn't do crap!

All I see is soap on top of Stain!

Ted sure is the Magic Man and I will let you know when you show up around 11:00.

nightrider wrote: Nice...................Try it on a 3 hour red wine stain.

I hate it when you win. Upon your request after you were as amazed as I was http://www.kleenkuip.com/products/chemspec_dfc_demo.htm - removing that coffee spot with D.F.C. in our little video demo you challenged me to a wine stain.

Sorry to say it only came out 75%. Oh well, Chemspec do make other products for wine stain removal.

What you say Danmarck does hold some truth, you should take a fast chemistry course and you will soon realize that your statement does not hold water. With the Exclusion of RED DYE a good all purpose cleaner should be able to take out Chocolate, mustard,latex paint and GUM is not a stain........and red dye either. Advertising & marketing makes believers like you that there is a need for 50 different brands of chemical cleaners that every household should have under the kitchen sink..........then these same people reflect their beliefs onto the workplace without any scientific knowledge

                          Nightrider

Red dye is not a stain.  so it is just dye as in take out the dye STAIN.

When I talk about red dye I do not talk of red wine and the like, I guess I get to technical in my way of thinking.....just as I get confused when someone talks of the weight of something, I see things as mass not weight.........it is not a correct measure.

                            Nightrider

danmarck82 wrote: So I have narrowed it down to one pre-spray and a dozen or so specialty chemicals. I charge extra for specialty spots so I don't care about the price as much, as the customer is paying . I just want the best for each situation so that the customer can be satisfied.

Good idea. I do the same. Works for me

I guess I'm wrong then, 2 against 1, I suppose what works for you is the best way to go, I just want to know what happened to Mr. Steamers method....." Sorry Mam " Before I start cleaning I just want to tell you that these stains won't come out, I'll try but, you waited too long to call me. No chemical, No soap, No speciality products, No stain removal, No callback, and he still got paid. I like that system, cuts cost down quite a bit.

                                 Nightrider