take the OP challenge!!!!!
Printed From: Carpet Cleaning Forum
Category: Carpet Cleaners Discussion
Forum Name: Encapsulation, Very Low Moisture, Oscillating Pad Cleaning
Forum Description: Discuss anything relating to very low moisture, encap and oscillating pad cleaning
URL: https://www.kleenkuip.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4473
Printed Date: 22/May/2024 at 5:32am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: take the OP challenge!!!!!
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Subject: take the OP challenge!!!!!
Date Posted: 05/December/2007 at 11:31pm
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clean an area with your OP... look good??? yes it does doesn't it... well now go over it with some HWE... WOW!!WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! look better??? WAAAAAAAAYYY BETTER! all those pretty pictures padman posts can still look better LOL 
I dare padman to take the challenge and post those pics...bahahahahahahahahahahahaha ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Replies:
Posted By: carpetologist
Date Posted: 06/December/2007 at 10:20am
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Steamer I agree that if you choose to HWE after an OP cleaning, you will get lots of soil that the OP left behind. What I would prefer is to do the process in reverse and HWE then OP. Reason for this is HWE on heavily soiled carpets just keeps pulling up soil from the backing and leaving it on top. It becomes a matter of dilution depending on how many strokes you make. As General Lee teaches in his IICRC carpet cleaning course, Lee claims that the moisture or water left on the surface of a so called clean carpet is the same color and odor as the water in your soil tank. Therefore; (Cotton OP) after HWE will further reduce this dilution scenario. Some may say yes it will further reduce surface soil but pound more soil deeper and back into the carpet. What ever your theory is I have proven many times that my theory makes the carpet look cleaner, brighter and dries faster than HWE only. I guess we need to here from the real experts and turn this thread into a scientific discussion. ------------- Kleen Kuip Supply Mart Inc. http://www.kleenkuip.com - New & Used Professional Carpet Cleaning Machines, Restoration Equipment, Training, Service and Supplies |
Posted By: Michael
Date Posted: 06/December/2007 at 12:52pm
Hear hear! I'd really like to see some more scientific explanations of stuff we're told by "experts." The issue above would be a nice place to start. I'd also like to see some real scientific data about IAQ of carpeted homes vs. hard flooring homes--green crusaders are constantly knocking carpet, but I want the proof. I'd also like to know exactly why water goes through the backing of Olefin so easily--I got slammed a couple years ago for repeating what I was told about its "lower specific gravity," but I've never seen hard data addressing it. Anyone want to add to the list? |
Carpetologist wrote:Posted By: carpetologist
Date Posted: 07/December/2007 at 3:57pm
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Michael
Seems we can not draw out any one to comment on the science of carpet cleaning. Thats probably because every one in this industry is gong in a different direction. No one has the time or inclination to want to look at this industry in a more professional and scientific approach.
As I have said before. If you are too busy chopping wood to stop and sharpen your Axe, one day you will be non competitive.
------------- Kleen Kuip Supply Mart Inc. http://www.kleenkuip.com - New & Used Professional Carpet Cleaning Machines, Restoration Equipment, Training, Service and Supplies |
Posted By: splash_$$$_dash
Date Posted: 07/December/2007 at 4:22pm
| HWE + OP = wick back |
Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 07/December/2007 at 8:31pm
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In theory Steamer is right, but then again only partly.
I have driven all over the US doing this test BOTH ways. I will tell you that OFTEN carpets look better HWE'd than they do with OP..... no it doens't end there... They look better until they DRY, then the OP will most often look better than HWE. All that water makes the carpet refract light beautifully, however that moisture doesn't stay in the carpet, it dries and that luster is GONE. Customers don't pay for immediate beauty, they want good looking carpets that stay clean longer. ALL i.e. EVERYONE of my customers USED to use HWE companies to clean, once we have them, we DO NOT lose them as customer. Now at first we only tested with HWE then OP, the HWE guys couldn't believe how dirty the carpets still were, and the idea that two methods are better than one is a big fat DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course it is. HWE + OP does NOT = wickback, but often HWE = wickback, OP can eliminate wickbacks for you. For YEARS I used OP + HWE both ways, either HWE first or OP first, you can see what I thought about the HWE when you notice I don't even carry an extractor anymore. ------------- Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years! |
Posted By: carpetologist
Date Posted: 08/December/2007 at 10:52am
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Thank you Pad Man for coming to our rescue. It sounds like you over the years have experience and tried most every method and came to your conclusion and decision. Maybe it is best we should sweep the scientific approach under the carpet and use what ever we feel personally works best for us and make us feel confident in our system and service and appears to put a smile on the customers face and a dollar in our pocket. I have never thought of or heard before the reflection and refraction scenario. Now that’s scientific and it’s a no brainier. Every one knows that water gives off a shine that many times creates an illusion. Moral of the story: Keep an open mind, nothing can get into a closed mind. ------------- Kleen Kuip Supply Mart Inc. http://www.kleenkuip.com - New & Used Professional Carpet Cleaning Machines, Restoration Equipment, Training, Service and Supplies |
Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 08/December/2007 at 11:35am
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Thank you Ted, I do want people to know though, that I am NOT opposed to HWE at all, my point has ALWAYS been that there is more than one way to skin a cat and skin it well. ------------- Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years! |
Posted By: MrCoffee
Date Posted: 08/December/2007 at 10:22pm
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This is the first time posting here for me. However, I used to be a floor tech many years ago. What Carpetologist states is exactly what the company I worked for did. They owned just about all of the supermarket accounts in the city I lived in, too, and the truck mounts never got their foot in the door. I guess they must have done something right.
MC |
Posted By: LilNiteRidrhood
Date Posted: 09/December/2007 at 4:21pm
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HWE + OP = no wickback.
Plain and simple. The elimination of the excess moisture retards the wickback. We also find that a final OPing of the carpet really wipes down heavily soiled yarns. Example: If you go to a do it yourself car wash and use 1000+psi, it comes clean but if you don't wipe it down with a shamy it looks streaky. I believe trashed carpet fibers need a wiping down by an OP after a HWE cleaning. |
Posted By: splash_$$$_dash
Date Posted: 10/December/2007 at 8:46am
I gots crazy wickback with a porty and a bonnet on CGD 
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Posted By: pilediver
Date Posted: 10/December/2007 at 12:38pm
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I honestly believe the having good flushing and vac power makes a big difference with HWE. Not all HWE is the same.
I recently converted to a high flow high lift system and it has made a remarkable difference in results in the heavily soiled conditions. I am using a 2" 5 jet wand with 02 jets and a glide and regularly work with 600 psi however on some carpets I do turn it down. Most would think that is a recipe for over wetting and subsequent wicking but in fact I am getting drier and CLEANER carpets. The reason is the angle of the jets and the closeness to the cleaning surface. With the higher impact and its shearing action on the fibre it is not driving almost perpendicular to the pile like most wands do. The extra psi is not enough to damage the fibre surfaces either. Because of the higher psi and volume there is an absolute necessity to pick the water up efficiently and that is why the 2.5 hoses are required as well. Cmaster and I will both attest to the major difference we have in dry times and pick up with 2.5 hoses. But the business end of my Greenhorn wand has made a huge difference. Having said that post bonneting certain carpets does bring out the best of both. I also clean with low moisture methods like Steamer and say there is a place and a time for both. |
Posted By: cmaster
Date Posted: 10/December/2007 at 8:36pm
Agreed. High flow rocks  ------------- 
The STD Meter |
Posted By: pilediver
Date Posted: 11/December/2007 at 1:36am
| But man do I ever go through water - that part is a pain in the ass. |
Posted By: cmaster
Date Posted: 11/December/2007 at 3:17pm
Yup. Lotsa water  -------------
The STD Meter |
Posted By: pilediver
Date Posted: 11/December/2007 at 4:31pm
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Speaking of water (hijacked thread for a moment)
I saw this guy with a tank in the back of his pickup and asked him if he wanted to sell it - sure - how much - 50 bucks - well,,,ok gave him 3 20 dollar bills said do you have change and he said naw - just make it 40 bucks. Took the thing home and look at the fit. 300 gallons - going to have it shortened down to 220. (cost $100 to do that) it has two deck plates in it already. Needs to be cleaned up abit. 
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Posted By: carpetologist
Date Posted: 11/December/2007 at 5:20pm
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pilediver,
As you may have heard me say before... Technology has made great strides in our industry with the exception of our wands and tools. We are stuck with the squirt & suck principle. We need an aerodynamic entrepreneur to look into a much more efficient wand. ------------- Kleen Kuip Supply Mart Inc. http://www.kleenkuip.com - New & Used Professional Carpet Cleaning Machines, Restoration Equipment, Training, Service and Supplies |
Posted By: pilediver
Date Posted: 11/December/2007 at 8:13pm
| Being done right now - stay tuned. |