I'm pretty new to this business.  I've started out with a used portable machine.  Only method I ever knew about was HWE,  The only method any one ever asks me if I do was HWE.

I have invested roughly $1000.00 dollars into a portable machine.. and another $150 dollars in chemical. 

I've already made that back and more.

I looked at an OP machine, the price is outrageous.  The machine, the pads, the chemical well over $4000.00 and I'll always have laundry to do.

Ignorance is bliss.  Thats all I keep reading on the forum.  I wasn't ignorant to the facts and I still bought a HWE unit.

Do I believe OP operators are getting the prices they say???  NO

Do I believe OP cleans better??? NO

Do any of my customers want OP??? NO

Gmoney and  Diva I Think you are straight up LYING, I think you, Just like Ken want to make money off the pad and chemical distribution. 

look in the phone book... I don't see any OP companies

You need to convert every steam cleaner you can, so you can make money.

If It's not broke don't fix it.

I bought a HWE unit and I'd do that again

I'm pretty new to this business.  I've started out with a used portable machine.  Only method I ever knew about was HWE,  The only method any one ever asks me if I do was HWE.

You are obviously fairly new, and if you advertise HWE then why in the heck would they ask you to Pad? Humm?

I have invested roughly $1000.00 dollars into a portable machine.. and another $150 dollars in chemical. 

If you got a porty and 150 dollars in chems, you are not outcleaning much of anybody, get real.

I've already made that back and more.

Whoppie, a day or two worth of work

I looked at an OP machine, the price is outrageous.  The machine, the pads, the chemical well over $4000.00 and I'll always have laundry to do.

ROFLMAO,  Maybe now people will see why I say, "Ignorance is bliss" $4000 dollars to go into yoru own business is too much for you? Think about that statement, most HWE guys invest 30-70 thousand in their business. You probably think you outclean them too. Pads washing, LOL, the washer does the work, good grief, two - three loads a day to make 800-1000 a day and that is TOO much for you.

Ignorance is bliss.  Thats all I keep reading on the forum.  I wasn't ignorant to the facts and I still bought a HWE unit.

You still are a bit ignorant of a LOT of facts. Nothing wrong with HWE, but by your following statements I can guarantee you that you are WAY short on facts.

Do I believe OP operators are getting the prices they say???  NO

Of course not, probably because you CAN"T, why, because you are just like MOST cleaners. Even the HWE guys that ADD ON Op to their toolbox, they charge an average of 30% MORE for OP to their HWE customers. So what you believe is hardly relavent.

Do I believe OP cleans better??? NO

And you base this on?????????

I have been doing this for 31 years, no, not selling so much as PROVING a point to HWE guys, that is why I have so many pictures on my website, because "I" cleaned them all. So again, what you believe changes NOTHING, but it does indeed close your mind.

Do any of my customers want OP??? NO

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't advertise OP...LOL Try advertising No steam, NO shampoo, 1 hour drying and watch your phone ring.

Gmoney and  Diva I Think you are straight up LYING, I think you, Just like Ken want to make money off the pad and chemical distribution. 

Big statement and uncalled for, I got to know these people last week, and I am sure by why I saw they would embarrass you with your 1000 dollar porty. OOOPS that is right, you are too close minded to come and find out the truth for yourself.

look in the phone book... I don't see any OP companies

Depends where you are, maybe there are none in YOUR area, of course that is changing rapidly and if one does come there, you will know, he will be the one taking away your work and you STILL won't understand.

You need to convert every steam cleaner you can, so you can make money.

LOL, no, but many are being converted and surprisingly those who have used a TM for 20-30 years are the ones SELLING them and going EXCLUSIVELY Op. But that don't mean nothing to you, you have your MIND made up, sure without evidence or TESING or SEEING for yourself, but that is usually the case for those who call those they don't know LIARS.

If It's not broke don't fix it.

Like I said earlier...LOL, "Ignorance is BLISS"

I bought a HWE unit and I'd do that again

You have convinced me too, that is EXACTLY what you would do.

Padding for Profit..

Suction what are you smoking?  I love your attitude.  That is why we are able to secure the customers and prices that we get.  Do you actually think you made a convincing argument?  How in the world can you comment on things you no nothing about?  That is trademark of an ignorant fool.  Have you tried an OP?  Have you tried an OP beside steam cleaning on a trashed out carpet (the ultimate test) and feel the dampess of the carpet and wait around for the evidence of wick back? Have you been around this industry enough to have the basis to back up why you think we are lying about our prices? 

Have you went into a customer's house a year after you steam cleaned and Op'ed their carpets for 30% more with no questions asked?  Do you have a rotary machine and a bonnet?   If not you might as well walk away from the jobs that give you a chance to boost your portfolio with some stunning before and after photos because your 100 psi won't cut it. Do you even have a pot to pi-- in when it comes to calling me an lier and challenging one of the methods that I use to clean?  Oh I'll answer that one.  NO.

I have invested over $35, 000 in steam cleaning and still have my 400 psi  portable steam cleaner unit in my van.  In all honesty it is now a very expensive shop vac for the most part. I also have a rotary, a 60 psi and 100 psi portable and about $1000's in steam cleaning chemicals and accessories sitting in my garage collecting dust.    

I need to know are you for real?  Even if you aren't I am sure Doug and Steamer will find some way to come and support your sorry a--. 

Ignorance is bliss.  Thats all I keep reading on the forum.  I wasn't ignorant to the facts and I still bought a HWE unit.

This is no way to be viewed as trying to persuade you.  But did you know these facts:  an OP can clean lightly soiled and trashed out carpet, can clean concrete, can clean grout and tiles, can clean commercial at a rate on par with rotary and do a better job as well, has a shorter learning curve, allows you to charge more, opens your eyes to the fact that you should be walking around with a vacuum to do a better job, will cost less to maintain than a portable, can outclean a portable hands down, as a newbie especially it will virtually eliminate call backs, can clean faster than a portable (twice as fast in many cases), should I go on? You knew all of these facts right! 

Do I believe OP operators are getting the prices they say???  NO

And you base this assumption on all of your years in the business right.  LOL  

Do I believe that you will be eaten up alive in this industry with that attitude?? YES.

Do I believe you are talking out of your A--??? YES

Do I believe that you need help?? YES

Gmoney and  Diva I Think you are straight up LYING, I think you, Just like Ken want to make money off the pad and chemical distribution. 

First of all I take pride in my honesty as a person and a business man. And I find it EXTREMELY offensive that you would even doubt my words.  You'll go far in this world Suction with that attitude!  Far under my size 13 boots!!! Diva will respond to you seperately about this statement.

And second of all, we don't sell pads or chemicals.  Now that might change at a later date and time but right now we are just like every other cleaner that buys their machines, chemicals, and supplies from a supplier. 

You need to convert every steam cleaner you can, so you can make money.

You just don't get it do you.  The only person that has to be converted is the customer (who by the way is not as close minded as you).  All they care about is clean carpets that dry quickly and that their technician has a bit of a personality.  You think they care about your huge truckmount or impressive portable.  You think they pray to the HWE demigods at night. NO.  How impressed will they be when they can't walk on it for half a day, or it still looks dirty, or it wicks back the next day.  At that point the presentation of your machine is a moot point.  But I digress.

And by the way Suction, I was cleaning houses with my 60 psi 15 years ago while in high school.  I sweat like a pig and got mediocore results and I'm GOOD.  100 psi is not that much more powerful.  Good luck!!! 

Wow padman... are you going to crucify anyone that does not share your point of view.

Thats a pitty... no need to make anyone look like a fool

There where some points that Diva and Gmoney made about cleaning hotels for .38 cents a sq ft

I've worked all through Toronto and Never Have a seen a hotel pay .38 cents a sq ft for any type of cleaning.

Padman... you mostly only post about your OP... thats all you ever talk about... I've never heard you have anything good to say about any other form of CC yet.

Your a Bible read man... let ye without sin cast the first stone....

your dropping bombs here padman... when truthfully your the one with sin.

You want everyone to love your OP ...when you yourself will love no other

I guess we can only serve ONE GOD

Oh SUCTION I am going to have fun with you.

• What kind of 1973 100psi portable did you get for $1000.00 ?? 
• You might want to pick a large supply of rust remover to clean up after you old rust bucket of a SPIT AND SUCK!

I don't mind playing hard ball with the BIG BOYS

• who have been in the industry for a long time,
• who have a vast amount of knowledge regarding all aspects of this business
•  who have learned from years of trial and error
• who have "REAL" equipment regardless of there method
• AND who have spent more than $150.00 on chemical (we spend that in one two weeks)   SO HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN IN THE BIZZ???

LOL

Only method I ever knew about was HWE,  The only method any one ever asks me if I do was HWE.

And obviously the only method you ever will know

I know your type... your the guy who was down on his luck buying a box KD with your last dollar and suddenly saw the little 100 psi steamer that the grocery store rents out. YOU HAD A BRIANSTORM  hit aisle 3 and picked up some MICKEY MOUSE carpet shampoo, some store brand spot remover and all this with $150.00 POST DATED CHECK!  (has it cleared yet)

Let me tell you about having thousands of dollars worth of carpet care products sitting collecting dust that have been accumulated over MANY MANY years of trial and error in this business.

Let me tell you about a 20 yr old 100 psi machine that has had too many repairs to mention or about a 400 psi Micheals thats only a year old that travels with us to this day. How about the 20 yr old bonnet machine that kicks butt every time but is now retire. Then theres about a mile of hose coiled up and probably 15 or so old wands. a couple of blowers, some crevas tools and countless other items that have been tried over the years.

What do you know about;

•  driving 10hrs just to demo a product??
• 6hrs just to learn a new techneque?
• 100's of hrs researching, learning, EXPLORING new methods
• Flyering from 9pm until 3am night after night to grow your business on a tight budget?
• competing with the big dogs no matter what it takes
• and then finally.........

FINDING SOMETHING THAT BLOWS ALL THOSE OTHER THINGS OUT OF THE WATER!

WE HAVE BEEN PADDING FOR JUST UNDER TWO MONTHS NOW (most likely longer that you have even been cleaning period)

We have educated ourselves via the net and DIRECTLY from the manufacturer's and yet this wasn't enough for us. We had to try all the systems OP has to offer to see what really does work. We travelled to Kentucky a week after meeting with John G because we were so floored by all that he knew and all he could teach us. Even after that we did our own tests;

• We compared HWE vs OP
• we compared Bonnet vs OP
• We compared Bonnet with an OP pad vs OP
• we bought Pads and made pads
• we bought chemical and did all kinds of crazy tests
• Kool aide, Grease, Ink, nicotine water, urine you name, we tried it

AND YOU KNOW? Op NEVER failed!

We also recorded all of our tests and when we show our customers they don't mind paying extra!

I looked at an OP machine, the price is outrageous.  The machine, the pads, the chemical well over $4000.00 and I'll always have laundry to do.

You looked at an OP machine ... that was your first mistake MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE TRIED IT then we wouldn't be having this ridiculas discussion caused you'd be one of us. (but then again with your attitude you'de NEVER be one of us)

$4000.00  wow we actually got our first full system for less than half of that. Our second was about 2/3 that price and our third will be 2/3 that aswell. SO for that four thousand dollars you are speaking of, you could gotten your system and had enough left over to pay the bills while seeking out a client base. 

And as for the laundry, its really not an issue you see the pads soak while your out and by the time you get in you just pop them in the washing machine In the morning you take them out and away you go.(I guess for someone like you that is hard work) For us its well worth the fact that we now have better clients and less stress and strain.

Do I believe OP operators are getting the prices they say???  NO

Do I believe OP cleans better??? NO

Do any of my customers want OP??? NO

Gmoney and  Diva I Think you are straight up LYING,

SUCTION; Do we give a rats ASS what you think   NO

You see you don't have enough merit to talk to us

You have no experience and ZERO knowledge about the many ways one can clean carpet

SHOOT I bet you don't even have any calluoses on you hands yet

You are a mere pup in this bizz

look in the phone book... I don't see any OP companies

Actually if you have a phone book you'll see a company called ORECK they have had OP for YEARS.

You need to convert every steam cleaner you can, so you can make money.

We have to gain nothing from OP by converting anyone.

You see this is a CARPET CLEANERS DISSCUSION BOARD

We are carpet cleaners

we have had indepth discussions about all forms of carpet care not just OP. 

We defend OP and will promote its use only because we know how much it has benifited our company and well being.

The only method any one ever asks me if I do was HWE.

Maybe if you took the time to educate yourself about other methods you could in turn take the time to educate your customers and GIVE THEM THE CHOICE!

We talk to our customers, explain the different methods, educate them as to what we can do (Steam, Bonnet or OP) and give them a choice.

So Suction

You must be a very uncomfortable individual

It must be difficult talking out of your A$$ and having your foot on your mouth all at the same time!

Have a nice day

PAD DIVA NORTH

wow.....too much to read.... short and simple post are sweeter to me..

you know us HWE people wet behind the ears

You have to start somewhere and a portable is a good start... it all depends on the user.

Truthfully these long post by team op shows that they insecure... all three team members said basically the same thing.

attacking a man, who's point of view isn't all that wrong...

this was one big shout down if you ask me

Steamer, Suction called the straight out LIARS, that HAS to be dealt with. I know these people and they tell it STRAIGHT, maybe not what some want to hear, but STRAIGHT nevertheless.

as to Your a Bible read man... let ye without sin cast the first stone....

Isn't it interesting that this specific verse the world uses against Christians more than any other, yet it is NOT found in any of the older nor original manuscripts and texts...HUmm?

I only dealt with a man who was WRONG and called someone out as a liar, that is over the top. Playing around and argueing and having fun is a far  cry from calling someone a liar. And his ASSumptions were way off.

But I could be nicer I suppose!

I just did in another thread, Did you know I own a TM and a portable?

I am not ignorant about their use and benefits.

trouble is you guys are spouting off to Suction and in all reality he's not new to the business

he's been around for years

he has a big bad TM

and he's probably giggling cuz you rag spinners are so defensive it's pathetic.

so I don't think "suction" has his foot in his mouth.

he's a member on your board too John

Well then lets set the record straight, then Suction is full of it,LOL

HE said he has a 1000 porty.

I read and responded to his post addressing what HE said and I don't care if he as a Vortex, that has nothing to do with what I said to him.

As far as DEFENSIVE? Don't think so, read your own posts, seems some of the HWE bunch just can't seem to get a grip on there being another way. Get used to it.

Calling someone a liar is not  going to recieve SOFT treatment, he was out of line.

Steaminpile,

Sucky boy can talk bad about the methods I use to clean all he wants but don't attack my character as a person by calling me a lier.  No humour in that.

and he's probably giggling cuz you rag spinners are so defensive it's pathetic.

so I don't think "suction" has his foot in his mouth.

I'm sorry if I get defensive when I am called a lier. I guess you wouldn't do the same because you are a passive man right?

 Well then, I hear you and Sucky boy have some kind of 'special friendship'. And the grapevine has told me you are an average cleaner with expert bait and switch skills.  Figures!!!!   

Come on Doug, you just don'e see anything wrong with a HWE guy calling a padder a LIAR.

You need to check you bias and be straight up on this.

Maybe Suction knows more than we know....  Listen  Mainline cleans carpet for a penny a sq ft... The GTA is a ruff place, and 38 cents for just OP is hard to believe.....

I do alot of commercial quotes...unless its real small you'll never get .38cents for OP...

but I won't call them liars, because who knows...suction has more balls than I do... have you seen the size of Gmoney...lol

the only reason I know who Suction is cuz he sent me private (nasty) messages on this board

all cuz of a joke I made on another board........anyways.

Having been voted best CC in town in the local paper I really don't think I'd get that being a bait and switcher.

I don't agree anyone should be called a LIAR unless of course they can be proven to be blatantly lying.

I have no problems with OP what so ever.......heck I do a bit of rag spinning myself,I just do not choose it as my primary method and quite frankly might not ever.

I just find VLM cleaners promote themselves by saying how much better it is  than HWE where as for myself I only promote the fact that I'm an awesome Carpet Cleaner and will go out of my way to get them as clean as I possibly can,at the price I quoted to the customer.

Now for Padman to promote the heck out of OP it makes sense,he builds sells the machines , chems and has built a nice business over the years spinning rags,and doesn't tend to get into the whole my method is better than yours until his method has been insulted.

This whole "you can charge more" for OP is bull IMHO.

you can charge a good price for ANY kind of cleaning if you're good at it.

quite honestly 3-4 hours for carpets to dry (HWE) is no big deal considering I live in northern B.C. and I've yet to have a complaint on dry times.

Sorry I responded in the manner I did in my first reply,I just think people on BB's need to relax when they don't know who they're responding to.

I think Suction was just trying to stir the pot a little and see how the padders would react.

Doug how old are you?  Is that how you raised your kids.  Punish the one who retaliates and not the instigator?  You confuse me.  Don't try to come off as some intelligent elder while acting like an incompetent judge.

And Steaminpile,

Go back and read the very first posts by Steamer and Doug regarding OP (under OP cleaning) and then talk to me about who instigated the 'mine is better than yours' debate.  And on top of that had the audacity to continue making assinine statements without ever answering questions or engaging in intelligent debate.

I hate the term bait and switch... that bull ... this only can happen to you if you can read fine print... or refuse to read the ads properly... or just can't read.

I've cleaned a lot of carpets in my short life.... I'm a pretty good talker... I do a large number of commercial quotes... Customers don't really care what your using aslong as the carpets are clean... Most will pay up to 25 cents per sq ft... but once you go over that mark it'll take a lot of fancy foot work.

The bigger commercail cleaning jobs will tell you what they will pay... most say no more than 10cents

so when I hear hotels at .38 cents a sq ft... I have to agree with Suction... and say NO WAY... or at least which hotel?????

The GTA Market has already been ruined... I'll get up to .45 cents a sq ft but that with bonnet clean and Steam clean...and promising to have air movers... might even have to promise to have both my trucks there and a 4 man crew. ...

then I hear about houses that would normally be 150 to 200 hundred are now 600 to 700 with OP

I wonder which world????

I don't think even Trump would pay those rates

Funny thing is guys, MOST of the guys getting the HIGH price for OP offer BOTH systems, and WERE exclusively HWE for years or decades.

But now that they use OP, you would no longer believe them either.

No Padman... The GTA market dictates what it will pay....1 dollar cost 1 dollar... they go lower than a dollar...but they never go over the dollar...

To them it's only worth a dollar... do you get what I'm trying to say...

Method doesn't matter... clean carpet is only worth .10 per sq ft,,, they put in the buget at that... most times they won't spend a penny more...

The GM won't get his bounus if they do...

I give the people what they want. The people want steam cleaning.  I have being trying to get some commercial.  Mr. Steamer is 100% right .10cents seems to be the magic number.

I was SO mad when I read the post by the OP people, doing their infomercial trying you create hype around OP.

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!!!!

Why do you think Padman post here a lot.  The man is on a mission, and so are Diva and Gmoney.  Here to stir up Attention for their product.

Cheaper than and truck mount, easier too, way better.

Any newbie or oldie can see right through you guys.  Trying to create hype for a product that most likely going to collect dust in Ted's storage unit.

I have nothing to gain by my statements.

But Padman/Diva/Gmoney do!!  just look how they attacked me.

WAKE UP PEOPLE DON'T LET THE OP HYPNOTIZE YOU

Suction, you are a sad man, you judged all of us and did so wrongly.

Sure I sell the system, that is a given, diva and gmoney don't.

But it is less than a man who calls someone a liar simply because of his ignorance. Cheap shot and false, but hey, go on believing what you like.

Ted doesn't sell these either, so again you are WRONG.

As far as NOTHING to gain by your statements, BULLCRAP, you have your pride to protect, don't worry the credibility already went with the calling people you don't know liars.

I can and DO back up EVERYTHING I say about the method, I have been doing it for 31 years. You simply shooting off your mouth and calling me or the others LIARS doesn't change ANYTHING. Facts are facts and you can be blind and ignorant as long as you choose. But I would happily CHALLENGE you to a cleaning duel..  I have found that for some the only way to get them to wake up is to embarrass the, sad, but YOU chose to arbitrarily call people liars.

PadMan

Padman I think his talking about pricing.... I have to agree with him.  .38 cents a sq ft is a hell of a lot... 600 to 700 per house wow

the numbers are off the chart... if I wasn't doing this for as long as I have been... I might believe...

does anyone other than Padman/Gmoney/ and Diva get this kind of money??? for commercial or houses?????

maybe I'm charging way to low?

No I don't think so.... dougie do you get those kind of prices???? does anyone???

Doug if you had an OP would your existing customers pay any more???

We are in GTA. We clean LDH for $49.95 by HWE. We clean LDH for $88.00 by OP. We charge 30 cents a sq ft for HOST.

We find that OP takes much longer than HWE especially compared  to truckmount.

MR. STEAMER wrote: No I don't think so.... dougie do you get those kind of prices???? does anyone??? Doug if you had an OP would your existing customers pay any more???

Mr. Steamer: My existing customers are getting cheaper.  Some wait till I run a special or get they your buddies in.  Chem Dry is always on special.

Lee, OP is no longer SLOWER, all the Conqueror series machines have greatly increased the cleaning and cleaning speeds.

With the 17" Commercail the speed is more than DOUBLED what the blue machine does.

I can tell you from being an extensive rotary user that OP (17" conqueror) is just as fast and does a much better job.  I must admit going out with John and cleaning helped a lot in reducing my times.

Doug good question,

It is as you see fit.  If you want to remove more dirt then you use one side of a damp pad and then one side of dry pad. 

gmoney wrote: Doug good question, It is as you see fit.  If you want to remove more dirt then you use one side of a damp pad and then one side of dry pad.

My concern is the dry pad. Would it not cause any distortion or the likes?

the carpet is still wet from the damp pad

MR. STEAMER wrote: You should Doug... so I can see your picture on the web site

 Mr. Steamer; What web site???

This web site right here... you know that they're gonna take pictures... or maybe even a short movie... to put on the web site

I'll get to see OP in action right from my desk chair

Are you coming Nov 19th doug???

We can play clue..."THE WHO KILLED KENNY EDITION"

Glide vs OP which one will dry first???