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OP Cleaning

Printed From: Carpet & Floor Cleaning Industry Discussion
Category: Carpet Cleaners Discussion
Forum Name: Encapsulation, Very Low Moisture, Oscillating Pad Cleaning
Forum Description: Discuss anything relating to very low moisture, encap and oscillating pad cleaning
URL: https://www.kleenkuip.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95
Printed Date: 09/December/2019 at 3:02am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: OP Cleaning
Posted By: PadMan
Subject: OP Cleaning
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 10:06am

Many here obviously have never used or even heard of OP cleaning.

OP is quite a bit different than Rotary Bonnet.

#1. The agitation of OP is much more and higher than rotary.

#2. Depth of cleaning is better because of the orbit of the cotton terri pad moving over the carpet and down into it.

#3. Cotton pads absorb more soil and because cotton terri has so many more contact points to the carpet it cleans better.

#4. While this is not about "which" method is BEST or better, fact is many OLD TIME cleaners as well as relative newbies have gone to OP cleaning and sold, YES sold thier TM's and replaced them with OP machines.

$5. In this day of "instant this and instant that" many people prefer VLM (Very Low Moisture) cleaning because of CUSTOMER EASE, we can clean and be out of the house in little time and the carpets are basically dry when we leave.

#6. Another benefit "to the customer" is the need for LESS cleanings, OP cleaning will cause the carpets to have to be cleaned LESS often.

#7. Our country club here in Lexington, Ky. had been having their carpets cleaned every TWO WEEKS for 14 weeks, simply because the carpets would look bad after that short amount of time. They had gone through 6 of the local cleaners and still could not get the carpets to stay clean. We did the job and then started a 3 MONTH maintenance program, and because the carpets stayed so clean they them moved it to every 4 months. We have been cleaning there now for 7 years or so.

If anyone thinks the previous cleaners were simply fly by nights or that they didn't know what they were doing, I must disagree, one of the cleaning companies was Joey Picketts company. Most of you know who he is.

Here are some OP pictures that I have taken of jobs I have done http://ccsop.com/gallery/album01 - http://ccsop.com/gallery/album01  this is NOT surface cleaning at all and it you study what the results, you can see that.

BTW, OP is a great pile lifter as well, the orbital actions makes it dig deep.

Ok, Nightrider, come on back and call me a liar!

     




Replies:
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 2:27pm

Op, Bonnet...doesn't really clean...most of the chemicals used are loaded with optical brighteners...it's a surface clean....it may look clean...but just do ONE swipe with your wand and you'll see....dirt will come up from deep down in the fiber....

Nothing against it...I use it cuz sometimes it's the only thing that will make the carpet look clean(which is important to the customer)



Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 3:02pm

Hey PadMan, How are you today. Sir  7 very well taken points, without pics I would have had a nasty comment for all 7 ( Guaranteed ). My father used to say that( " Even a pig can be made to look good in a picture " ) But that was my father and cameras back then were not like those of today......I say a picture is worth a 1000 words. I'm impressed PadMan.....very impressed...not sure why but I would love to have a machine like that if it truely gives those results. I do have some questions though. 1) That place was real dirty, how long did it take you to clean, and how many sq. ft were there( 2) what was the cost of chemical used to clean (3) How many pads you went through and are they reusable (4) That place looks like it wasn't cleaned for years, and what is that place. I have to admit after seeing those pics, you do good work, super job, I can see how you can convert many a person using those pics. I will look further into it and have already called Ted at Kleenkuip and left a message.....he was on the other line and had his feet up on the desk..........another loooong conversation. He must be trying to sell a truckmount.

   Jack        NIGHTRIDER



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 3:06pm

Mr. Steamer, you need to get a few facts straight before making those types of claims.

 

Fisrt bonnet and pad are NOT the same method, especially using OP as opposed to rotary.

Second, NO OPTICAL brighteners, second the chemical is listing at the top of the EPA preferred chemicals for cleaning. 98% homegrown plant products, 100% bio-based. NO RESIDUE, and here is a challenge for you.

 

Clean the BEST you can with HWE and then wipe with a damp cotton towel, it will be dirty, why?

 

Clean and rinse and clean and rinse a carpet several times and then follow with an OP and cotton pads, your pads will be dirty. Clean it the BEST you can, and then tell me where the soil will be coming from... the top or the bottom?

If from the top, then your hwe rinse job simply did a lousey job, if from the bottom then your HWE job is not all you crack it up to be.

 

Don't believe me, TEST FOR YOURSELF, then imagine a machine that orbits the fibers driving the pad deep into the fibers, NOT a rotary that operates and runs on to the fibers.

 

Oh, if you say you clean and then the pad is clean after you use it, well, this may be hard to swallow but THEN you would have to be A. a liar, or B the FIRST to ever get that result.



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 3:14pm

Thank you NightRider, I KNEW we could talk about this..LOL

The pics are from several diferent jobs, one thing that many do not understand is that it doesn't take a LOT of more time for dirty and lightly soiled but it does take more pads..

For example, we just finished 118,000 square foot government building, pics here: http://ccsop.com/gallery/album22 - http://ccsop.com/gallery/album22  and that was one of the SLOWEST jobs we have had to do in a while. It was all Miliken carpet tiles, mostly 16 years old. Much of it hasn't been cleaned in many years. There was SO much soil that it took us 5 people 8 hours a day for 5 1/2 days. We used 320 pads a day! That was by FAR the worst we have had to deal with in pad washing in my 30 years of this.

Usually a typical 4-5 hour day for one person doing approx 400-600 dollars worth of cleaning takes about 40-50 pads, or THREE wash loads.

Those pics of the pee job in Midway on my first link, it took 25 pads to clean that house, yes, even with that much soil and urine, but the pads were HEAVY with soil. That is the advantage of 100% cotton terri, most don't understand just how much they will hold.

 

I hope to come to Toronto later this year, and will be showing off the method, but I  "always" ask that the guys take us to THIER problem jobs, so it is on their turf on their real world carpet problems, NO SETUPS or trickiy anyone.

If you are anywhere near there, I would love to demo for you.

 

Lee S., you got some nasty carpet we could clean somewhere?



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 4:53pm

Tell me PadMan, where abouts are you in the States, I'll go and see you for a demo, Is that your phone number on that truck. I'll call you. Tonight. By the way that is one hell of a beautiful truck.....I want one. The pic of 50 man hours of pad, there are stainless steel  canisters to the left of the pic.......what are those. Another question, how many sq.ft can an operator do in an hour taken into consideration user fatique. I am truely impressed PadMan, I don't regret any and all the other nasty posting I made towards you in the various topics, because most of it was all in fun and I thought it just made interesting reading for others and a little shock treatment to get others to voice an opinion. WHAT I DO REGRET IS NOT KEEPING AN OPEN MIND AS TO NEW AND OR OTHER METHODS OF CLEANING CARPET, MY PAST EDUCATIONAL TRAINING BOTH IN THE SCIENCES AND THEOLOGY FAILED ME WHEN I WROTE THOSE COMMENTS.

              JACK                NIGHTRIDER     where The Padman is quickly becoming every HWE cleaners nightmare..........hide all your customers.........he's comming to a city near you.



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 5:45pm

Lol NightRider, I am in Versailles, Kentucky just outside Lexington. You are more than welcome to come visit anytime. Yes 859-873-0273 is the number and I gotta tell ya, that Sprinter van is the best buy I have made! 20-26 miles to the gallon and rides smoother than our car.

 

Those stainless steel canisters are Pepsi canisters, they are 5 gallon, I put three gallons of prespray in them and hit it with the air compressor and I never have to pump.. 29 years of pumping and my shoulder was wearing out, now just spray and go!

8 Hours of HARD cleaning is a good day, however, we usually like to clean 4-5 hours a day and just make sure we make good while we are doing it.

Square footage of course varies by amount of soil and type of carpet, but normal residential is 300-600 per hour, now that includes getting there, setting up and leaving. Time only cleaning, 600-900 residential and 700-1200 commercial. BUT some jobs will also be slower some faster.

No problem NightRider, I NEVER take things personally, plus let's be honest, we ALL think we do the best job, that is natural for any of us who love what we do.

I hope you will still have a few nasties to throw at me in the future, otherwise I might feel unloved...



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: greg
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 8:04pm

padman what is the difference between bonnet and op. i bonnet clean and i use pads, and it sounds like i go through as many in a day....just wondering.



Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 8:45pm

Same stuff...same principle...looks like a cow...moo's like a cow...

IT MUST BE A COW



Posted By: Carpetologist
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 8:55pm
Good work Pad Man looks like you converted Jack to OP cleaning. He may want to sell that big truck mount back to me, and thats A GOOD THING as I have someone that would pay three times what it is worth. Hurry up and get this transaction over quick.


Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 9:07pm
Jack a pad man....lol


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 9:28pm
Bonnets are thicker and do not clean DOWN into the carpet fibers, cotton terri pads do. Anyone who doesn't know the difference between bonnets and pads has NEVER seen pad cleaning.

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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 9:32pm

Listen Padman I've seen done it been there.......tell me how it's different...Educate me...change my mind....

Tell me what I say is total foolishness



Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 9:42pm

A coffee stain in a commercial carpet...why your OP works better because it's only removing the stain from the top...with very very little moisture

The reason why the hwe doesn't so a good job...it's because the stain has soaked down to the bottom....HWE will hit the stain but beacuse it's so wet it tends to wick up.....the drying time is soooooo much longer...

you remove that stain with your OP and a guarantee I'll can bring it right back with my hwe...why cuz you never really cleaned it...you just licked off the top where everyone can see....plus the drying time is way less with the OP so no chance of wicking up.....

But it ain't clean only soap and water can do that Padman...



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 9:43pm

If you have DONE it and BEEN there, then I question why you don't know the differnce.

 

Bonneting is much more surface type cleaning, op digs and gets INTo the fibers, and the pads absrobancy compared to bonnets are not comparable. So again, "IF" you have been there done that, why would you ask?

 

OK, would you put padding up against your TM? Quality wise?

 

 

I would, WHY? Because I KNOW padding, now bonneting, nope, I will tip my hat to you.



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 9:45pm
You can't get to the bottom with OP...no matter what you tell me....if the stain is removed with your op I can bring it right back with my wand...


Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 15/March/2004 at 9:59pm
for commercial carpets pad is the way to go.....for nylon carpets no way


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 16/March/2004 at 10:20am

You can't get to the bottom with HWE, that is a falacy, any person who thinks they can TOTALLY clean a gravity fed product, hasn't been looking into the depths of a carpet to check thier work.



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: greg
Date Posted: 16/March/2004 at 1:16pm

padman i want a box of these pads. i'll put it to the test and if your right i'll switch. but i can't see it getting any cleaner. but i won't knock it till i try it. 



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 16/March/2004 at 2:50pm

The pads in and of themselves are nothing special Greg, they are 100% cotton terri, heavy and durable terri. But that added to oscillation is what enables the deep cleaning and removal of soils and such.

 



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 16/March/2004 at 3:51pm

With Latex backing padman ...no.. Steam cleaning even at 500 psi won't touch the underlay...but it'll hit right to the root of the fiber alot better than OP......

Latex backing acts like a water barrier.....but if the moisture sits there long enough it will eventually soak through.....ie coffee stain

and that's my point pad man...you really only wipe the top...OP uses very little moisture...so you don't get the wicking problem....op doesn't get anywhere near the root of the carpet.......

a spill might be small on the top...but just imagine what the underpad sucks up....

Now if the backing is jute....I think that steam will the underpad....but who really sees alot of jute backed carpet now a days



Posted By: PRINCE
Date Posted: 16/March/2004 at 8:44pm

STAINS GONE = HAPPY CUSTOMER

BACKING DIRTY= NOBODY SEES= NOBODY CARES

PADMAN DOES NICE WORK= MONEY FOR HIM AND NOT MR. STEAMER



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We have the cleaning solution that's right for you


Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 16/March/2004 at 8:54pm
never said I didn't agree...I wanna get paid...so I want stains gone too OP will do that...but don't tell me it's a real deep cleaning I ain't buying that


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 16/March/2004 at 9:00pm

I am not asking you to buy anything, I am telling you that it is so, whether or not you believe is irrevelant.

 

It isn't a SLAM on HWE to have a deep cleaning method.



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: greg
Date Posted: 16/March/2004 at 9:36pm
mr steamer bonnet ,and buy the sounds of it op cleaning, clean to the base of the fiber. if i'm wrong let me know padman.   

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nothing is impossable. it just hasn't been done yet.


Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 16/March/2004 at 9:46pm

Padman..you know that I think you do nice good work, I will also admit on this forum we have promised to meet in the next comming months in Kentucky to see your machine in action. I have been speaking with Ted at Kleenkuip for some walk behinds that will cut down on time and expence for some maintenance contracts I picked up starting towards mid summer, these are secure 2 and 3 year deals that require regular monthly carpet care program, and as it stands your machine might be the answer, maybe it's not, I have no idea, but to say deep down cleaning is possible with your machine. I think NOT.       Make a Video using both systems, and do all the tests in front of the camera, but PadMan.......no break-away shots, and keep talking while the camera is rolling, or better still I want to see a big clock with a big red second hand counting every second that goes by while the camera keeps rolling.

  Jack         NIGHTRIDER  where time and destiny meet only once in a lifetime



Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 16/March/2004 at 10:00pm
So all this time....OP was the way to go....is there an OP stair tool????


Posted By: LeeS.
Date Posted: 16/March/2004 at 10:48pm

For commercial carpet maintenance , nothing comes close to the Cimex.

You will have a blast tearing that up.



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 17/March/2004 at 9:45am

As deep as HWE, that is for sure, on many carpets deeper.

We have been brainwashed into believing because a lot of water is used that the carpet is rinsed or CLEANED way down deep. Well what is deep cleaning? Deep cleaning is cleaning deep enough the customer never see what dirt is left.

Some with think this bogus, but time after time we have tested this, no matter how well you clean, I can come back and get more, then you more than me more and so forth.

We were in Atlanta at a TM manufacturers place, he had been cleaning on an 8' x 4' piece of carpet for a couple of hours, demoing the machine. We went over this OVER CLEANED carpet with a pad and it was quite dirty, the TM manufacturer was amazed, I told him, now you do some more, he got more, then me and I got more soil. People what we clean is gravity fed, anyone thinking THEY are truly getting all the soil out is sadly mistaken no matter HOW much they WISH they got it all out, to think so is simply lying to yourself.

So again, how deep is deep?

I will go toe to toe with a TM anyday, period.

 

Mister Steamer, yes there is a stair tool, it is a smaller oscillating machine, and will impress you with the way it cleans up the bulledge of the stair!

 

NightRider, side by sides are great, but the fun is when you then switch sides and clean each others work, HWE guys are sick when they see how much was left in the carpet THEY THOUGHT was clean. Question is: Where did the dirt come from? The Top or the Bottom?????

One of the main reasons many get this system is because you can eliminate wickbacks with it... there again, do you think they are eliminated beucase you don't get the carpet wet or because you get the elements causing the wickbacks out?



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: Steaminpile
Date Posted: 17/March/2004 at 12:30pm

It's because you're not getting it very wet.

Wicbacks are operator error.



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 17/March/2004 at 5:08pm

Most HWE guys know the HAVE to say that, wicking is not stopped by VLM cleaning because it is low moisture, it stops it because you can remove what is causing it.

The pictures below are examples of carpets that had been HWE'd but wicked back, we STOPPED it permanently.

 




Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 17/March/2004 at 5:24pm

PadMan are you married......I think I'm falling in love..........good work......I think we can all agree.

                    NIGHTRIDER



Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 18/March/2004 at 8:51am

Padman was there underpading under that carpet?????I could do the same job with a little brown out and my bonnet machine....

you know if that's underpaded thats all still there...right???



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 18/March/2004 at 10:01am

YOu could? How would you know that? Others had tried, but failed, and NO you wouldn't have gotten that out with a rotary and brownout, not a chance.

Yes there was padding, but WHAT are you saying is under the pad? Dried rusty water? So what does that have to do with removing the stain and keeping it from wicking? NOTHING goes down to the padding and cleans.



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: Carpetologist
Date Posted: 18/March/2004 at 11:09am

Padman maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks.  I have seen many pad jobs that totally amazed me, but I still had the doubt in my mind as were did the dirt go.  I now understand a little better as I read.

You use some times up to 100 pads on a job.  When we sell a pad machine in Toronto most customers purchase one pad. Not exactly true, Lee bought many. Its a no brainier why did I not figure it out.  If you use enough Toilet Paper you get the job done properly and comfortably.



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Kleen Kuip Supply Mart Inc.

http://www.kleenkuip.com - New & Used Professional Carpet Cleaning Machines, Restoration Equipment, Training, Service and Supplies


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 18/March/2004 at 4:38pm

LOL, exactly Senor Carpetologist, what type pad machine and pads do you sell?

Mot of the time, 50 pads in the truck will do you all day, but our TOUGHEST job was the government building, 5 men 8-9 hours each and we used a total of like 320 pads for the day. But that was the worst case scenario.



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 18/March/2004 at 5:02pm

Ted, you are now totally confusing me , you sold me a big freakin truckmount with all the bells and whistles, when i could have just bought toilet paper to clean carpets.........what a rip off.

send me 200 cases of toilet paper

           NIGHTRIDER



Posted By: Carpetologist
Date Posted: 18/March/2004 at 5:29pm

Padman

We sell a basic carpet & floor polisher called Centaur. You can see it on my site. For oscillating equipment we sell Oreck. The Bonnets we sell not pads are the thick type with the green astro-turf across them.



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Kleen Kuip Supply Mart Inc.

http://www.kleenkuip.com - New & Used Professional Carpet Cleaning Machines, Restoration Equipment, Training, Service and Supplies


Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 18/March/2004 at 9:03pm

I'm almost sold on OP not....lol you could use a million pads.....I only have 10...so that my problem...ok now I'm sold

just keep wipin...and wipin and wipin....hhhmmmm interesting...same idea with bonnet pads??????sounds like alot of work...Ted I need more pads...

Padman how much rpm do I need to run....I have a couple of floor machines here..I'll get one rewound

SOLD



Posted By: Steaminpile
Date Posted: 19/March/2004 at 2:50am

 

I STILL say wickbacks are operator error.

I had 1 wickback last year and it was cuz I got lazy.

 

Oh but that's right.

Padman was the ONLY cleaner in town who could keep the carpet from wicking with his amazing rag spinner.



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 19/March/2004 at 8:28am

I agree with OPERATOR error, which of course is the cause for MOST prpblems.

Your rotary runs either 175 or if it is a high speed 300 rpm, the OP machine runs at 1725 rpm, but that is OPM orbits per minute, the acutal pad turns slowly.



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 19/March/2004 at 3:35pm

I want to see your machine...1700 RPM's is real high...you could burn up the carpet.....how many sq ft can you do with one pad padman???



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 19/March/2004 at 3:37pm

no Senor Steamer, it ORBITS at 1725, NOTHING like TURNING at 1725, that would fry the carpet.

Look at the videos on my website

http://ccsop.com - http://ccsop.com



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 19/March/2004 at 3:41pm

so I guess you pre-spray the chemicals pad man????



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 19/March/2004 at 4:08pm
Yes we do, that way when you use the pads you can rinse the chems out of the carpet.

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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: greg
Date Posted: 19/March/2004 at 5:05pm
WICK BACKS HAPPEN STEAMINPILE, YES EVEN WITH BONNET IT DOESNT HAPPEN TOO OFTEN BUT IT HAPPENS.AND WHEN IT DOES I EXCEPT FULL RESPONCEBILATY.

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nothing is impossable. it just hasn't been done yet.


Posted By: Monsterclean
Date Posted: 19/March/2004 at 6:38pm

Help me understand this.... It took 5 people 5 1/2, eight-hour days to complete 118,000 square?  It took 220 man hours to complete 118,000 square?  Are you kidding me?  I would fire my manager if it took over 30 man hours. 

PADMAN, was this contract an 8A set-aside, or a competitive bid?  Did you make money with your system?  Are you sure?  Are you really sure?  You wouldn't make money in Hampton Roads, VA.

I clean similar spaces for 7 cents a square.  I clean large commercial spaces without furniture for 4.6 cents a square.  I average $200 an hour on the job.  

Most cleaners just don't get it.   The cost of your machine is insignificant.  Efficiency is all that matters.  I run the most expensive machine on the market, and I make more money than most of my competitors.     

I could show you on paper that your machine costs more than my Vortex.  Just ask.

 

 



Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 19/March/2004 at 6:54pm

I agree to many pad changes........118,000 sq ft 5 1/2 days yes thats too much time on one job.....

Me and my partner did 40,000 in 4 hours he took one floor and me the other...and  thats at 10cents ...we cried not enough money....that would have taken 2 days padman style....

If you use the proper pre-spray-----the right rinse---and low water pressure---and make sure that the ventilation is going......... no wick backs

Padman I like OP but hell it takes too long...I could to 10 places in the time you do one with half the work force



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 19/March/2004 at 8:46pm

I got paid 20,000 dollars for the job, and it was incredibly dirty, we only did it because it got us ALL Kentucky State jobs HAVE to be cleaned with this system now, the Capitol building bought a machine, janitors winning bids are buying the machine etc.

I know all the "I make a fortune on every job" lines, I have heard them several times, but USUALLY those are the guys that when I visit them don't have a pot to piss in.

We normally average approx 120-150 dollars and hour each on our cleaning, several jobs upwards of 300 dollars and hour each. But I am not ashamed to show the tough ones where we made great money. Some guys woudln't do the job fo r that, but then they wouldn't have the 20,000 in thier pockets either.

Anyone TOO good to make great money are probably full of sh*t in there claims of making ANY MONEY.



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: Monsterclean
Date Posted: 20/March/2004 at 7:52am

Ok Padman, 

You definitely would not have won the contract in Hampton Roads. If you understand government contracting, then you understand why. You would also understand why I (a naval reserve supply officer) am skeptical.

All government contracts exceeding $2,500 in value must go through contracting. In a competitive market, contracting will solicit three bids. They generally will hire the lowest bidder. However, carpet-cleaning exceeding $2,500 will almost definitely go to an 8a company (minority-owned, small business set-aside). If you are 8a, you are equivocating...leaving some very important information out of your story.

Any future requirement for the government to use your system is completely illegal. PERIOD.

Padman. I am not the one claiming to make 17 cents per square foot; you are. I can't find a contractor willing to pay over 10 cents a square for large-scale commercial work (unless I move furniture). Since I am not in the furniture-moving business, I do not take jobs that require furniture removal. I am not talking about moving chairs.

If you are getting these great rates and are staying busy, then you are living in one of the least competitive markets in the United States and.... I'm moving to Kentucky!



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 20/March/2004 at 8:31am


 


SOLICITATION MODIFICATION



TITLE:  CarpetCleaningL&NBldg(DBS)

 

DATE ISSUED

 Dec 19, 2003

SOLICITATION CLOSES

 Date: Dec 30, 2003
 Time: 4:30 PM

SOLICITATION NO.

S-03441302-1

COMMODITY CATEGORY

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701 HOLMES ST
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Phone:
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FAX:(502)564-9574
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FAC FACILITIES MGT ADMIN SVCS
GLENN BUMPOUS  
701 HOLMES ST
FRANKFORT  KY 40601

Phone:
(502)564-5455 (477 )
FAX:(502)564-9574
EMAIL:Glenn.Bumpous@ky.gov

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GLENN BUMPOUS 
(502)564-5455 (477 )

ELECTRONIC BID PERMITTED:
    [   ]

OWNERSHIP TYPE:
    [   ]  Sole Proprietorship  
    [   ]  Partnership  
    [   ]  Corporation  

 

ADDITIONAL VENDOR INFORMATION:

SIGNATURE OF AUTHORIZED AGENT IS REQUIRED UNLESS RESPONSE IS SUBMITTED ELECTRONICALLY,
FAILURE TO SIGN SHALL RENDER THE BID INVALID

Signature ______________________________  FEIN# ______________
Date ______________






All offers are subject to all terms and conditions contained in this solicitation.

<big>TABLE OF CONTENTS</big>

 

(x)

SEC.

DESCRIPTION

X

L

Free-form Terms and Conditions

 

<small>The Commonwealth of Kentucky conducts business in different time zones. The time zone for this solicitation response is Eastern Standard Time. NOTE: Electronic bidding IS NOT permitted for this solicitation.</small>
<!--HeaderPagePadding-->

 

Line Group: CarpetCleaningL&NBldg(DBS)

 

Line

Description

Due Date

Qty

Unit Price

Unit Issue

Total Price

0001

Carpet Cleaning L&N Bldg

 

118425

 

Square Feet

 

Extended Description:

Carpet Cleaning Service

One time carpet cleaning using an oscillating absorbent pad method that includes pre-treatment with a very low moisture (VLM) non-toxic, bio-safe, cleaning solution containing colloidal-silver.

L&N Building
908 W. Broadway
Louisville, KY 40203

4.         Carpet Cleaning Requirements:

 

a.                    All carpet(s) must be cleaned using an oscillating absorbent pad method that includes pre-treatment with a very low moisture (VLM) non-toxic, bio-safe cleaning solution containing colloidal-silver i.e. Abstraction from Carpet Care Systems (or equivalent). 

 

NOTE: To determine the acceptability and effectiveness of any “equivalent” cleaning solution(s) requires the vendor to provide the substitute product (equivalent to Abstraction) for demonstration (at no cost to the Commonwealth) to the absolute and complete satisfaction of the Division of Building Services, prior to award of contract.  This demonstration shall be completed within 10 days after notification is provided.

 

This method is similar to the rotary bonnet method in that it uses a machine that resembles a floor buffer however, instead of a rotating brush the machine oscillates the brush through a circular orbit. The carpet is pretreated with a VLM cleaning solution, which is allowed to “dwell” per the manufacturer’s instructions. An absorbent pad is attached to or placed under the brush. The dampened carpet is then “agitated” with the pads to remove the soil. The pads are replaced, as they become dirty. Pads must be replaced often to prevent transferring soil back to the carpet.

 

b.         All chemicals and equipment must be handled by trained, experienced persons. Documentation substantiating this requirement must be submitted to DBS with the bid package.

 

c.         The contract holder shall provide a one time cleaning of all accessible carpeted areas at the price per square foot listed in line item 0001. 

1)         The 4th floor and basement floor has already been cleaned and is excluded from the contract to be awarded from this solicitation

2)         In place furnishings on the 1st through the 3rd and the 5th through the10th floors reduce the total “cleanable” carpet area by an estimated thirty percent (30%), leaving an approximate area of 102,970 sq. ft. to be serviced.

3)         The 11th floor is currently empty therefore the entire 15,455 sq ft of carpeted area is considered “cleanable” for a total area to be cleaned of 118,425 sq. ft.

 

d.         The contractor will not be required to move and clean under large “fixed” furniture items (desks, file cabinets, partitions, etc.).  Cleaning under desks will be to the best extent the vendors equipment allows.  The contractor will be expected to move, clean under, and replace more easily moved items (tables, chairs, wheeled copiers, trashcans, etc.).

 

NOTE: Any square footage mentioned above is believed to be accurate, however, the Contractor is responsible for verifying all measurements.

 

5.         All cleaning must be accomplished on a schedule pre-approved by DBS. 

a.         Based on the agreed upon schedule DBS will notify the tenants to remove personal items from the floor.  A DBS staff member will check the scheduled work area on Friday afternoon to help insure it is as ready as possible for cleaning the following day.

b.         Once carpet cleaning work begins the contractor shall continue working during consecutive scheduled work periods until all work is completed.  Work periods begin at Friday midnight and end Sunday midnight.  This provides the contractor with a forty-eight (48) hour work period. The contractor is required to complete all carpet cleaning within six (6) consecutive work periods (6 weeks).  See the Best Value Section below for best value consideration.  Any exceptions that affect completion of work as scheduled must be reported to DBS in a timely manner so schedule adjustments can be made.

I am not real happy about the IMPLIED lying on my part so I am posting some of the bid. Normally I would not post this type information. Like I said, NOW it is required, and YOU thinking that is illegal shows why you are a cleaner and not a lawyer.LOL

 

 



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 20/March/2004 at 8:52am

We don't really need to see this Padman.  I feel what everyone else feels.

Way to much man power and way too much time.



Posted By: Monsterclean
Date Posted: 20/March/2004 at 9:06am

Your assertion that "ALL Kentucky State jobs HAVE to be cleaned with this system now,"  does not appear in this contract.  IN fact, the contract reads "One time carpet cleaning using an oscillating absorbent pad method that includes pre-treatment with a very low moisture (VLM) non-toxic, bio-safe, cleaning solution containing colloidal-silver."

It is illegal.  I have been in the Navy for 19 years.  While I am not a contracting officer, I am a supply officer.  Becasue I deal with similar circumstances every day, I am probably better informaed than most attorneys (on this matter). 

Do you actually believe that this contract supports your case?  It supports my case better than yours.  I guess we know why "you are a cleaner and not a lawyer.LOL" 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Posted By: LilNiteRidrhood
Date Posted: 20/March/2004 at 10:07am

Padman has them sold.

Thats why the specs are written that way.

There is no reason the facility can't have it cleaned the way they want it cleaned.

My best customer insists on VLM. They firmly believe that HWE poses mould and slip fall risks.

Open your eyes naysayers.



Posted By: Monsterclean
Date Posted: 20/March/2004 at 11:53am

Has them sold?  This is government work.  There is no "selling them".  The contract was written this way because of the way padman wrote his proposal.  He had the lowest bid.  If a stem cleaner had won the contract, it would have specified steam cleaning.  

This may not be a federal contract, but states are required to comply with the FAR (Federal Acquisition Regulations) if they want govt funds.

My eyes are open.   How else could I read your post?  Ha ha haaaa..... ugh, that's not even funny, but I will leave it anyway. 

 

 



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 20/March/2004 at 2:55pm

Your assertion that "ALL Kentucky State jobs HAVE to be cleaned with this system now,"  does not appear in this contract. 

 

What a dufuss, this contract is for THIS job, that doesn't take a TOO much brains power for ya does it?

 

 IN fact, the contract reads "One time carpet cleaning using an oscillating absorbent pad method that includes pre-treatment with a very low moisture (VLM) non-toxic, bio-safe, cleaning solution containing colloidal-silver."

 

You cut part of the post didn't you? Who do you think Carpet Care Systems is? And just who do you think builds the Oscillating floor machine? WE are and do. I have had janitorial companies call that won bids and they had to purchase equipment and product from us to do the job.

It is illegal.  

SMARTER THAN A LAWYER HUH? IT has become the standard, get over it!

 

I have been in the Navy for 19 years.  While I am not a contracting officer, I am a supply officer.  Becasue I deal with similar circumstances every day, I am probably better informaed than most attorneys (on this matter). 

 

Being in the Navy didn't make you a lawyer either! Well being you are WRONG, I question just how darn smart you are, me thinks you think to much of what YOU think!

 

Do you actually believe that this contract supports your case?  It supports my case better than yours.  I guess we know why "you are a cleaner and not a lawyer.LOL" 

 

Yeah, I do, being mine is fact and yours is your opinion, which by the way is simply WRONG, in error, not thought out, just plain goofy, biased or WHATEVER.

 

Has them sold?  This is government work.  There is no "selling them".  The contract was written this way because of the way padman wrote his proposal.  He had the lowest bid.  If a stem cleaner had won the contract, it would have specified steam cleaning.  

 

Again, (man this is becomng a habit for you) you are wrong, THEY wrote the proposal, that is why OTHER proposals many around the STATE are written the same way and soon ALL of them here will be. Now why would they do that? Well it really is simply, because they got the results they have been wanting and waiting for, so THEY are making it the standard, propably because of blowhards that THINK IT BENEATH them to MAKE money, and would rather be here bitching and griping instead of making a good living. My wife and I made 2240.00 each saturday, WHAA, but for many of you clowns that isn't good enough? You are funny! I paid my 3 people 320.00 a day each, yes, I paid them VERY WELL, and STILL I Made great money, sure, just under 200.00 an hour that I was there, but hey, we NOW have the state insisting on using our system... Can YOU say the same? Doubt it.

 

This may not be a federal contract, but states are required to comply with the FAR (Federal Acquisition Regulations) if they want govt funds.

 

Just shows what YOU know! Sure anyone can bid, as long as they use this equipment and product... which is what I told you in the first place!

Go to law school, because your carpet cleaning training ONLY is showing through.



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 20/March/2004 at 3:20pm

Padman.... no matter what I like your work...your presentation of everything you do is top notch.  We need not know everything like playing cards never let them see your full hand.

I can see no matter what Padman stands behind his product 100%



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 20/March/2004 at 3:27pm

Thank you Sir!

 

I have a quirk about when someone thinks I am lying...



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: Monsterclean
Date Posted: 20/March/2004 at 5:10pm

How can I argue with that logic Padman?  It's your fantasy, not mine.  I am outta here. 

 

 



Posted By: greg
Date Posted: 22/March/2004 at 7:43pm
i've looked at your pictures padman nice work, but your videos won't load.

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nothing is impossable. it just hasn't been done yet.


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 22/March/2004 at 8:01pm

Patience Greg, click on them as go have a cup of coffee, all of sudden you will hear a noise, yep, they will be playing.. LOL

 

Thanks Greg!



-------------
Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: Marty S.
Date Posted: 22/March/2004 at 11:29pm

Another board ... another bunch of suckers. 

I've seen it evolve on three boards already.  



Posted By: WESTDEVIL
Date Posted: 23/March/2004 at 1:02am

 

When you need to convince somebody you have to show all your cards sometimes. Good job Padman. I am the learning guy just starting my carpet cleaning business and I must say that if you convinced these guys the way you did what else can I do. Where is the machine selling ? Can you give me pricing including freight to Calgary ? How do I get the training ?  Do you need some kind of representation here in the west of Calgary ? I would be delighted to do it.

I was out of the forum for some time but I think I re-entered it in the right day. Thanks. I'm looking at the videos now. Amazing !!

 

 

 

 



-------------
Westdevil


Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 23/March/2004 at 1:02am
Those that will not learn from History are doomed to repeat it. Eh tu, Marty?

-------------
Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs.


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 23/March/2004 at 8:43pm

WestDevil, I plan on coming to Calgary in May, maybe if you are anywhere near where we are going we can meet. I would be happy to go cleaning on carpet YOU find difficult to clean or any problems carpets you have.

 

The machines is selling everywhere, Australia, Hawaii, Japan, Guam, Canada etc.

Would be pleased to talk to you, email me your phone number @ mailto:john@geurkink.com - john@geurkink.com and I will call you.



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 23/March/2004 at 10:21pm
What makes the OP machine different from a regular floor machine???


Posted By: Carpetologist
Date Posted: 24/March/2004 at 6:13pm

Padman if you ever want your business to run like a Swiss watch you have a perfectionist run it for you. But don't ever try living with one. That's my wife who is home to-day cleaning carpets.

Padman she is cleaning with an oscillating orbiter and pads, not bonnets. Thats not the end of my story.

We have a small dog who hates any type of vacuum noise and drives you crazy when you do any thing to the carpet even if he is locked into another room.

So the easiest way is to simply hold him in one arm while vacuuming. I was watching her and thought we have one woman, one pad machine and one dog in one arm cleaning carpets. It's that easy.

Stay tuned for pictures and results if she lets me take them. Could this be franchised? Now don't any one mention about a dog cleaning the carpets it may upset my wife.  



-------------
Kleen Kuip Supply Mart Inc.

http://www.kleenkuip.com - New & Used Professional Carpet Cleaning Machines, Restoration Equipment, Training, Service and Supplies


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 24/March/2004 at 6:16pm
The OP oscillates or ORBITS, this means that every square inch of the brush is getting around all sides of the carpet all the time, it also lifts the carpet pile as well as a pile lifter.

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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: Monsterclean
Date Posted: 25/March/2004 at 8:23am

Check out the Steamin Demon II at http://www.steamindemon.com/images/Untitled-4.jpg - http://www.steamindemon.com/images/Untitled-4.jpg .  It is the fastest, most efficient portable machine on the market.  I admit it; I use these when my truckmount hose-runs are too long. 

 

 

 

 

 



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 25/March/2004 at 9:14am

We have a lot of EX steamin demon users in our customer list.

High flow, LOW AGITATION.



-------------
Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: greg
Date Posted: 25/March/2004 at 7:32pm
saw your videos padman nice work. still doesn't look any better than my way.

-------------
nothing is impossable. it just hasn't been done yet.


Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 25/March/2004 at 7:36pm

Padman has managed to keep this topic on top for weeks...amazing just like OP.........btw padman I did a commercial job this week(400 sq ft), and I used all my 10 bonnet pads....best job I ever did.

 

OP has to be better...my next question is do you have a patent???



Posted By: Mr.Mike
Date Posted: 25/March/2004 at 7:47pm

Where's your before and after pics Mr.Steamer?

Love to see them.



Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 25/March/2004 at 10:44pm
I should have taken pics.....Padman is right the more pads the better


Posted By: Mr.Mike
Date Posted: 25/March/2004 at 11:08pm

shoulda, woulda, coulda...get on the ball Steamer.

I'd hire the Padman in a second after seeing his before and after pics.



Posted By: Monsterclean
Date Posted: 27/March/2004 at 3:56pm

The Steamin Demon is definately not right for every job.  It has serious limitations.  We only use it for commercial glue-down.  I was worried about overwetting the first few times, but that turned out to be a non-issue. 

 

 

 

 

 



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 27/March/2004 at 6:50pm
Steamon Demon is a GREAT rinse machine.

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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 09/April/2004 at 10:59am

Wow I've  missed this topic...it fell of on to the second page...have you heard...

PadMan's having a world tour!!!!

He'll be in a city near you.

Ocean Pacific Cleaning is on its way



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People & Standards You Can Trust


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 09/April/2004 at 4:43pm

You bet, coming to a dirty carpet near you!



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: Adwa
Date Posted: 09/April/2004 at 8:31pm
Padman you haven't answered me yet. Will you be coming in to Toronto and dropping in to see Ted.  


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 09/April/2004 at 9:38pm
Absolutely, I would love ot, it will probably be July for Toronto, I look forward to coming and demoing to you guys, I have wanted to meet you guys for a while now.

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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 10/April/2004 at 5:55pm
Even Just to have an OP machine...is great...I think it'll do wonders on commercial work....I must have one.....start taking orders padman...so you'll know how many to bring up...so we can get a group discount

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People & Standards You Can Trust


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 10/April/2004 at 6:00pm
Stans got a plan!

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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 11/April/2004 at 4:41pm

Lets place some orders.....if you want a OP machine post here....the more he jams into that van of his the cheaper it'll be



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People & Standards You Can Trust


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 18/April/2004 at 4:32pm

I have to find out how the Canadian gov feels about me coming across the border, i am sure they will want to inventory the truck eh?

 

Look forward to getting up there.



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 18/April/2004 at 4:37pm

JUST TELL THEM IT'S FOR A DEMO SHOW AND YOU HAND OUT THE MACHINES FOR THE PEOPLE TO TRY OUT.

                           NIGHTRIDER

JUST DON'T MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT SELLING THEM UNLESS THEY ASK



Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 18/April/2004 at 7:21pm
Great Idea NightRider, will set up a swap meet at the border..LOL

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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 18/April/2004 at 7:27pm

THEY DON'T LIKE ME TOO MUCH AT THE BORDER.........WHEN THEY HEAR MY NAME I'M THERE FOR A WHILE INSIDE ANSWERING 1000 QUESTIONS.

                            NIGHTRIDER



Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 18/April/2004 at 7:30pm
Nightrider you have a hard time answering one quetion. Wow a thousand I hope you pack a lunch.  Is that a 1000 different questions or the same one a thousand times?Guitar


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 18/April/2004 at 7:38pm

LOL. ouch, that hadda hurt!

 

 



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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 18/April/2004 at 9:16pm

ummmmmmmmmmmm....let me see Doug.........ummmmmm WHAT !!!!!

                Nightrider



Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 18/April/2004 at 9:22pm
I certainly would not want to be the one asking the questions.  You never seem to ever run out of answers.  What was the question again???Guitar


Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 18/April/2004 at 9:45pm

As long as I never run out of answers, the others will sooner or later run out of questions,

Please ditch the guirat.

                           NIGHTRIDER



Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 19/April/2004 at 7:49am
Originally posted by nightrider nightrider wrote:

As long as I never run out of answers, the others will sooner or later run out of questions,

Please ditch the guirat.

                           NIGHTRIDER

What the hell is a guirat??Guitar


Posted By: Steaminpile
Date Posted: 19/April/2004 at 11:05am

guitar??

 

or maybe a rat playing guitar.

 



Posted By: Rotti123
Date Posted: 19/April/2004 at 2:50pm
 Very impressive photos.  I can see how an orbiting machine would be WAY more effective than one that simply spins.


Posted By: PadMan
Date Posted: 23/April/2004 at 2:35pm
HOpefully I can get up there soon to show you how it works, hearing about it is good, seeing is believing..LOL

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Converting HWE customer to VLM customers for 30 Years!


Posted By: TomR
Date Posted: 26/April/2004 at 4:51am

To someone who is brand new at carpet-cleaning and looking for a system to invest in, OP seems like a miracle.  I've done hardfloors for years- your entire OP package costs less than a single propane burnisher.

  Speaking of hardfloors, I know that there are no common commercial floors that have clearer reflective qualities and highier sheen than the floors in an army barracks because in a barracks alot of people melt carwax onto the floor and buff it out with a 3-700 rotary machine on top of a terrycloth towel.  It makes sense.  Common commercial finishes are super-hard (for durability) and can really only be brought to an excellent shine with a propane burnisher.  I am wondering if there is any compound or wax that has the protective properties of super-hard commercial finish but also the ultra-high sheen properties that can be brought out by a system like yours.   A propane burnisher runs between 2000 and 3000 rpm.  1750 rpm from a virtually silent electric machine is extremely impressive.  Provided that the orbital motion has the same effect in practice as the rotary motion.   A supercharged battery orbital machine with a 27" head and 2300 rpm, combined with the kind of finish I described would change everything for the VCT floor care industry.  Ever think about that? 

  I am pretty juiced about your system.  The easy learning curve and low price are the best selling points for me.  If your ever going to do demos through western PA, let me know.  If the demo is anything like what is described and depicted on your website, I'd buy it on the spot. 

  I am interested in learning more about the OP hardfloor applications if you care to share.  Maybe this isn't the place for it though, after all it is a carpet cleaning forum. 



Posted By: Adwa
Date Posted: 26/April/2004 at 8:09pm

Yes this is a carpet cleaning forum Tom but if you read some of Padman past posts and other topics on the forum anything can be discussed.

Somewhere in here Padman gives his web site and also photo's of his work.

Read back further and you will get more information.



Posted By: TomR
Date Posted: 27/April/2004 at 2:04am
Thanks adwa, I'll have to dig through the posts more.  I studied padmans site until my eyes starting getting blurry and I had the sudden urge to put on a pair of long shorts and pull my tubesocks up as far as they could go.  Good stuff.  I still have a ton of research to do. 



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